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Open Face Chinese Strategy Thread Open Face Chinese Strategy Thread

11-28-2013 , 10:09 AM
Yes you are
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11-28-2013 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brinkytinky
Yes you are
I'd ask who is what? but maybe it's better that I don't know.

Buzz
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11-28-2013 , 02:18 PM
Note opponent's set. Go for the gutshot here or (highly unlikely straight) flush?

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11-28-2013 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish
Note opponent's set. Go for the gutshot here or (highly unlikely straight) flush?

To help you decide:

Flush (incl. str8 flush) is 40.2%
Str8 flush is 3.3%
Gutshot is 58.6%
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11-28-2013 , 04:18 PM
3 diamonds bottom and A5 middle
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11-29-2013 , 01:36 AM
Last to act, criss cross with FL. Opponent has set x/T2/99A and x/2/KK88, and my other set is x/97/QQ6.

I have BTN with QcQd6c6s7d.
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11-29-2013 , 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticketmaster
Last to act, criss cross with FL. Opponent has set x/T2/99A and x/2/KK88, and my other set is x/97/QQ6.

I have BTN with QcQd6c6s7d.
Your opponent is a fish but as played I think I put QQ middle 667 bottom and put first card with2-3 outs on bottom and and play for bonus up top? Hate putting one outer on bottom. Driving now need to think about it more
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11-29-2013 , 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticketmaster
Last to act, criss cross with FL. Opponent has set x/T2/99A and x/2/KK88, and my other set is x/97/QQ6.

I have BTN with QcQd6c6s7d.
try to get him to play for more $$$.
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11-29-2013 , 03:07 AM
Standard OFC
Variation: Re-enter FL with QQ+

Villain (First)
6
9
A A 3

HERO (BTN)
J
A
7 6 2

Thinking this is no good due to clubs already out?
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11-29-2013 , 04:14 AM
No other way to set really with the 2 dead aces.
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11-29-2013 , 05:23 AM
I put J in middle also since 3 aces are dead
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11-29-2013 , 09:31 AM
yeah same ^^ missed that out on post.
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11-29-2013 , 09:45 AM
K that makes sense thank you.
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11-29-2013 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hauturi
To help you decide:

Flush (incl. str8 flush) is 40.2%
Str8 flush is 3.3%
Gutshot is 58.6%
40.2% * 4 + .5 (we aren't only going for SF) * 3.3% *15
or
58.6% * 2

Let me pull up the trusted windows calculator...
1.8555
or
1.172

clearly still go for flush. Plus it leaves room for any gut-shot and you have late game room to bail to 2 pair, so I like it alot more. I think this is evidence that you should always go for 3flush over a gutshot.
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11-29-2013 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO
Sorry but I can't believe with 4 queens on bottom you make fl almost 1 in 5 times
Where do you put the K?
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11-29-2013 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticketmaster
Last to act, criss cross with FL. Opponent has set x/T2/99A and x/2/KK88, and my other set is x/97/QQ6.

I have BTN with QcQd6c6s7d.
I would personally still set 2 pair bottom. Changing the set around because "your outs are dead" and "you only have one out to a fullhouse" doesn't really make a ton of sense to me. Just because your outs are dead doesn't mean you can simply put QQ in the middle and make it a better play, it just means your hand isn't that great. It's the ole "I had to bluff, they had me beat." kind of logic. (Just because they have you beat doesn't mean you get to bluff profitably.)

But still I have no clue what is good here, you just don't have a really good hand. And 667 in the back seems like a) a waste of 2pair, and b) foul city.
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11-29-2013 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varx
Standard OFC
Variation: Re-enter FL with QQ+

Villain (First)
6
9
A A 3

HERO (BTN)
J
A
7 6 2

Thinking this is no good due to clubs already out?
Villain misplayed hand by not putting 96 in middle.

I would always set 3 clubs here, even if no aces were dead and 3 clubs were dead, you just don't have many other options any other direction and this is a very solid setup to JJ up top and other strong plays later in the game. The only thing that changes is: The more clubs dead the earlier I bail for 2-pair.
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11-29-2013 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionDJ
I would put the king in the middle.
I estimated the villains chance of fouling to at least 60% and
Hero will make it no more than 15% if he goes for KK on top, and i dont think that is enough. But it might be close depending on the value of going to FL.

K in the middle is better than on the bottom since we still can get a full house. And I assumed it is unlikly to foul with the K in middle.
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11-30-2013 , 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varx
Standard OFC
Variation: Re-enter FL with QQ+

Villain (First)
6
9
A A 3

HERO (BTN)
J
A
7 6 2

Thinking this is no good due to clubs already out?
With two dead clubs it's just under a coin flip. I created a chart for this specific situation, as it is a common dilemma:

http://www.openfaceodds.com/charts_3_flush.html

I'm more interested in the placement of the J. With a 19% chance to one-out pair the A and ~16% to runner-runner KK or QQ, I'm wondering if the middle row can support a front-row JJ if the 3-out J hits (48% to happen).
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11-30-2013 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OFC_OMG
With two dead clubs it's just under a coin flip. I created a chart for this specific situation, as it is a common dilemma:

http://www.openfaceodds.com/charts_3_flush.html

I'm more interested in the placement of the J. With a 19% chance to one-out pair the A and ~16% to runner-runner KK or QQ, I'm wondering if the middle row can support a front-row JJ if the 3-out J hits (48% to happen).
It's also nice to have J high up top, that can be a winner by itself.
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11-30-2013 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionDJ
It's also nice to have J high up top, that can be a winner by itself.
J high isn't going to win many tops. With 3 aces dead the J goes in middle
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11-30-2013 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO
J high isn't going to win many tops. With 3 aces dead the J goes in middle
If opponent draws an Ace they will put it on the bottom.

If opponent draws a K or Q they will put it in the middle.
If they put a K in the middle then draw a Q they will put it up top.
If they put a Q in the middle and draw a J they will put it up top.
If they pair the middle they can put a K or Q up top.

Seems like J high is over 50% to win the top vs this board, that's just my personal estimate.

"Missing out" on pairing JJ in the middle might be a good thing, since setting JJ middle may lead to many fouls, so while I am not sure the J has to go up top, I don't think you have made a strong enough case to put it in the middle either. We are still up in the air on this one.
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12-01-2013 , 10:28 AM
33% chance at pulling a deuce for a FH, which would also give me a likely scoop
16% chance at a queen for FL

What do you do? Thinking the 2 may be a higher ROI?

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12-01-2013 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish
33% chance at pulling a deuce for a FH, which would also give me a likely scoop
16% chance at a queen for FL

What do you do? Thinking the 2 may be a higher ROI?

2/6 * (6+4) (6 for FH + 4 for beating the flush in the back, thus guaranteeing a scoop) = 3.333

1/6 * (7+12) (7 for QQ royalty, 12 for FL estimated bonus) = 3.166

3.3333 > 3.166 therefore go for FH back.

The main reason behind this EV difference is the scoop points you gain from beating out a flush in the back. The ace high up top already has the top on lock down.

For instance, if your opponent only had 1 pair in the back, then the FH bottom would only be worth 2 points and then you would chose to go to FL.

Very interesting hand, thanks for sharing.
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12-01-2013 , 05:21 PM
Since its so close, gotta factor in that villain avoids the scoop with the 3h in the middle.
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