This is a tough one. I think at this point I would be a nit and play to not foul and not get scooped. We are a dog to get a flush if we went with J4 at bottom, and we would still be a dog to get a straight if we went with 4587 at bottom.

I think I would go with:

4
57
j8

Thoughts?

in my view the four doesn't do much up top and reduces the chances to make a pair or two pair in the middle. I would put the next card higher than a 7 on the bottom. Then you have several shots at pairs down low.

574
j8

Even though it's bad to start with a low gut-shot in back, I still think it's the best play. You've lost the back. If you make a straight, you cut into the royalties a bit.

---
j
4 5 7 8

Realistically, your opponent has a lot of freedom you don't. If you are fortunate to get a pair of Jacks in the middle, you it'll do two things:

1. Give you a better shot at not getting swept.

2. Give your opponent the impression that you're going to foul and your opponent might take his foot off the gas. They'll go into DON'T FOUL mode instead of going for max value.

Isn't putting the J (6 royalty = same as FH on bottom) up top more optimal since all AKQ are live for the middle and J for up top?

I know it's more risky but very unlikely we make a T pair up top and we cant make a 9 up top.

From the other Open face thread

Quick Q regarding FL

Played OFC a lot with friends and when somebody is in FL we usually just deal each 5 cards like a regular game, and just deal him in like a regular player one card at a time but closed, he then watches us set up our hands and in the end he simply makes the best combo's he can with his 13 cards that were all dealt down.

However, played with a chinese kid who told me they do the following (was HU):

We both got 5 cards and then he gave me my remaining 8 cards and let me set up my hand before he did anything (his first 5 were still dealt face down) and let me put them 5/5/3 face down after which he opened his first 5 and began setting it up one card at a time like a regular game. After he finished we both opened.

Obviously very different approach to OFC, he also did JJ+ for FL.

What I also don't understand is when people can loop. We simply do a regular QQ+ is another FL. But the app states qualifications such as boat in the middle is a loop (and I'm assuming you can have worse then JJ+ up top when you have a boat in the middle)

Person in FL sets first and declares if they will be in FL again. Never heard of the boat in middle loop.

Looking for some clarification on some FL rules myself actually.

If 2 people make a legal FL hand, do both go to FL or is it just whoever has the biggest pair?

If both players have the same pair does the player with the best kicker go to FL?

They would both go to Fantasy Land...

Here's how we play it:

To stay in FL, you need to sweep and get a royalty in the middle.

Really depends on what your opponent had tbh, but with this information I would put it mid. An extra draw for the heart and might be lucky enough to hit the K top.


Here's a sick FL-hand I got dealt. (Not really relevant to your hand, but you'll probably enjoy looking at it )

Wow that's sexy.

wow thats a monster hand

My friend got dealt that hand, and that reminded me of your hand you mentioned earlier. He drew that ace of clubs and I think he placed it mid, ended up missing the flush bot.

What app/program is that ^

FWIW in the fantasylandpoker one the FL shows face up to your opponent.

Gamblergames, russian client. Not just playmoney, but you'll probably need google chrome to translate the site for registering.

My home game has always played OFC high royalties only ...and i thought this was pretty standard but recently saw the wsop tournament rules which said they will pay ALL royalties and turns out pca and ept did as well!

Wondering how the Vegas cash games play?

Is your hand fouled if you have the same hand (eg: straight) in middle and back?
Thanks

No

Impossible without opponents hand but
Dirty Calc assuming KK live

A mid
60% Foul -3.5
40% Flush +2+.9 (for 10% chance KK royalty) -.7 opponents improvements
total aprox -2


A back
10% Foul 30% Scouped -6
50% -1
total approx -2.9

If both K are out or opponent wont play optimally or you value FL <4 then I'd favor A in Back.

Few spots




9 up top or in middle?



Should I go

K
AA
47 ?

1st hand you set wrong without knowing what is I cant think of a single hand that should be set that way. What were the first 5?

Its probably time to put the 9 in back.

I prefer

--
k47
AA

and

7
k4
AA

I set that
---
K7
AA4

I would put my 9 in the middle, I wouldn't want to crowd my top with a fully live card that early, even if my opponent only had a deuce. And if you drew another nine, you could place it top, the difference here would be IF you hit an ace or a three you can put it mid. You would of missed out on the chance of having atleast 2p bot and mid.



And because the other hand is headsup aswell, I would play it:

AA4/7K/---(Bot/Mid/Top)
Why? It's a waste to have the king up top, if you draw another one you're going to end up having to put it top, that's just a waste. And pair of kings mid is enough to win the street most of the time. And I would have the 4 instead of the 7 down with my aces early, because I have aces, my kicked doesn't really matter, but it matters if I pair the 4 or the 7 in mid, 'cuz 7s beats more than the 4s lol. It's worth putting down a card instantly with your A's bot instead of waiting for a fully live card. (That can take ages, meanwhile you might draw a 4/7 or two) - at least when you are playing headsup.

Had that discussion about putting down a card with your pair/trips early, if it was worth it, and I kept thinking it can't be worth it. But that was over a month ago, I've played a lot since then and I'm never putting a pair down by itself novadays, even if I'm first to act.

If you were playing 4 handed I would start off with(most of the time depending on position);
47/AA/K

Is this correct?

hand in question whilst friend was in FL