Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit 2-7 Single Draw Lowball $0.25 Ante - 5 players - View hand 1227251
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $63.90
BTN: $137.95
Hero (SB): $231.30
BB: $65.50
UTG: $100.00

Pre Flop: ($2.75) Hero is SB with
Hand: 7 5 5 3 2
1 fold, CO raises to $3, BTN calls $3, Hero calls $2.50

First Draw: ($11.25) (3 players)
Hero draws 1, CO draws 1, BTN draws 1
Hand: 8 7 5 3 2
Hero checks, CO bets $4, BTN calls $4, Hero raises to $14, CO calls $10, BTN calls $10

Final Pot: $53.25
CO mucks T 9 5 3 2
BTN shows 8 6 5 4 2 (8,6,5,4,2)
Hero shows 8 7 5 3 2 (8,7,5,3,2)
BTN wins $50.60
(Rake: $2.65)

* I elected to call this time pre, sometimes OOP ill raise this draw, othertimes, not, this time i wasnt feeling it. Prolly good that it worked out this way i wouldve lost more after the draw id imagine

If you dont raise this draw, what draws do you raise? Its very hard to get any better then this.

Stacksizes with CO are a little awkward for 3betting if you don't have a dynamic where you can call off profitably(and you usually can't) and 3b/f obviously sucks.

However, we should rarely be getting 4b given that stacksizes are awkward for him too, as he's not getting great odds to shove. We have the top of our d1 range + blocker and there's just a lot of dead money in this pot. I'm "feeling it"(a 3bet).

I sometimes do and sometimes dont like i said, with a better read on the villain I would be more comfortable 3 betting and leading out unimproved whether he drew or not. The 4 bet im obv wanting to avoid cuz id be priced in and when I draw, hes likely patting pretty much all of his range.
Mostly this is a raise pre, i agree. But with the limited time i spent with him at the table, I just opted not to since i had no clue of how he plays.

how did him being passive save you money?

Thank you for that.
How does him being passive save you money in this hand?

Because he didn't bet the best hand postdraw, when it was all but guaranteed at least a call. He was also content to let his opponents dictate the action with what we can now see was a pretty premium one card draw. The point of the post is that it could have been a lot worse for OP, and he is able to thank his opponent's passivity for that.

very much this, thanks for playing kiclcon

I believe what kilclon is getting at is that against a passive opponent 3b you shouldn't lose any more money anyway. But I could be wrong.

If he was saying that if he 3 bet i should strongly consider folding since my read on villain is hes passive so if hes being aggro i can assume my 87 is going to be good far less often, then hes right i guess, but theres no way i can fold here everytime to a 3b regardless of the opponent. There are several scenarios where i can, but to do it everytime a passive player 3 bets i think would be bad.

Like i said above, limited reads on villain in this game of the mix. For all i know he could have a flush or a straight and either be playing the wrong game or not realize he has a straight and play it teh same way. So If he had 3 bet, i wouldve likely called this time and puked, learned my lesson and moved on, but as it turns out it only cost me a 2 bet instead.

FWIW, he could have easily stated what he was thinking instead of pretending like he didnt know what i meant

Idiot logic alert.

If we don't have a dynamic where we can profitably call it off, we save money because we can make an exploitive fold.

LOL at CO

Something similar happened to me today in triple draw no limit. I check raised crazy maniac before last draw when I made my hand vs his stand pat. He called, I patted and suddenly he split his hand. I opted to play it sneaky and let him bluff since my hand was almost quaranteed to be good but he's unlikely to have hit good enough hand so I checked and prepared to snap him off(maybe not best of tactics but what the heck. I thought I could not get much of value if I bet myself).

He checked back nut 8 he made...Pretty interesting check back since he had been shoving a lot recently. He got that worried I was trick playing 7 high?-)

Though albeit opponent wasn't generally passive which is why I was so dumbfounded when he checked back(though happy that I got away losing minimum once he sucked out on last draw). He would have got rest of the stack in 100% quaranteed had he shipped it.

Lol at this. Are you saying that if you were facing a bet by first guy and a raise from passive guy, that you would raise it up again.
That doesn't look good to me and its the only way i can see how you will lose more money in the hand post draw.
Please tell me if I'm missing something.

Umm, no, im actually not saying anything like this, as this is an entirely made up scenario and nothing like the hand that was played or the action that happened.

But lets say that did happen, i check, villain 1 bets 8, villain 2 bets ~25, then i call, and lose ~25, which is in fact more than $14 post draw that i lost in the OP.


Now please, follow this up with reasons why i should fold an 8 here in made up scenario number 2.

The action I stated is what would have happened if passive villain was not playing passive, which is what I thought the point of the thread was. And Villain 1 doesn't bet 8, he bets 4.
I'll put it this way, what do you think the proper line for passive villain is given that you check and villain 1 bets 4?