Dont have a read on villain, not a fish but not spectacular either.

5 Card Draw Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2009/07/14 18:37:09 ET
6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: CO ($8.05 in chips)
Seat 2: Dealer (Hero) ($42.75 in chips)
Seat 3: SB ($30.35 in chips)
Seat 4: BB ($28.35 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG (Villain) ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 6: UTG+1 ($11.50 in chips)
SB: posts small blind $0.25
BB: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Hero [A J 4 T Q]
Villain: raises $1 to $1.50
UTG+1: folds
CO: folds
Hero: raises $1 to $2.50
SB: folds
BB: folds
Villain: calls $1
Villain: discards 3 cards
Hero: stands pat on [A J 4 T Q]
Villain: checks
Hero: bets $1
Villain: raises $4 to $5
Hero: raises $15.50 to $20.50
Villain: calls $15.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***


I shipped it. Would you ship it?

No, I wouldn't ship with less than KKKAA or maybe QQQAA. Seriously, what do you think your opponent thinks? ( He thinks he beats a pat hand; ergo, he's made at least a boat and since he's raised from utg and drawn three, he's likely to have started with either AA or KK so his distribution of hands that beat a pat hand is skewed towards kings full or aces full. Any "real player" won't show you less than a boat here; only a "noob" would checkraise with less than a boat ). You have to call just in case your opponent misfired; besides, this hand is clearly a game-theoretical payoff even if you never pat bluff.

Unless you have a specific read that villain is a total spewmonkey that never look at anything but his own cards, this is never a shove. Id shove with 888-boats and better here, even though I agree with bigpooch that that might be a bit on the loose side(but THEN I would be WTF lucky facker Im not folding).

Raise more pre-flop as well

I played mind tricks on myself and convinced myself that he thought I was bluffing. Theres definitely a few players out there I wouldnt do this too, but I certainly did not ahve a read on him.

But now looking at it slowly yea, my bad for not just calling.

Yeah why did OP not raise to at least $5? That minraise was really, really gay.

Yea my bad. Either way it would have gone down the same way.

Yeah but he is almost getting the right pot odds to draw to beat you, and the more chips you have back, the more implied value he is getting on his call. Which you prob already know.

But as he is out of position he doesn't know how many you're going to draw, make him pay heavily for that information so that he makes a big mistake by calling you and drawing.

I said make it $5, but I think you could make it $7-$9 and still get called by a lot of hands.

No - pat only gets action from hands that it loses to.

Break it and go for the ROYAL! (just kidding).

FWIW, I would raise more in PL pre-draw, and lead for more and then fold to too much action (you'd have to have a read of someone being very tricky to call-off after making a decent lead). In any event, pre-draw 3-bet is just way too small for PL.

Isn't this same scenario in the other thread? It might even be the same hand. lol

OP on the other thread is dealt AAXXX, draws three, fills up and gets called down in a capped pot and the villain shows a spade flush. Sooooo in these scenarios are you just effed because you can only beat a bluff? I take it that it's read dependent because like m2smith2 said "pat only gets action from hands that it loses to." Which would mean you can only beat a bluff even with a flush. That kind of sucks... no?

So I take it 5cd is very read dependent? Does a lag style work well in this game?

Like any game, a LAG style will have greater swings than a tighter approach, and a winning player is capable of utilizing either. Still, the most successful players I see are all very aggressive, and take advantage of their opponents' weaknesses to win extra bets as much as possible.