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2-7TD Common Flop Spot 2-7TD Common Flop Spot
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04-11-2019 , 01:28 PM
#1
zoogenhiem
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Posting what seems like a common spot that I was discussing with a friend. 4 handed cash game, everyone plenty deep.

Predraw: CO raises, folds to Hero in bb with KT753
1st draw: 2/2
Flop: Hero checks with A7653, bb bets, Hero?

Should Hero continue here for a small bet? Any merit to Hero betting out on flop?
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04-11-2019 , 02:46 PM
#2
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Standard play is just to lead the flop

Flop is definitely a call though as played

Folding the flop to a single bet HU is a rare occurrence
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04-12-2019 , 09:00 PM
#3
RolldUpTrips
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
Posting what seems like a common spot that I was discussing with a friend. 4 handed cash game, everyone plenty deep.

Predraw: CO raises, folds to Hero in bb with KT753
1st draw: 2/2
Flop: Hero checks with A7653, bb bets, Hero?

Should Hero continue here for a small bet? Any merit to Hero betting out on flop?
No offense, but this is like an extremely simple spot. Hero leads. I recommend watching some introductory training videos/getting coaching.
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04-12-2019 , 10:53 PM
#4
lol_hi
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always leading in that spot
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04-12-2019 , 11:35 PM
#5
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Just to give some benefit of doubt and flesh this out abit I think it helps to get into some more detail

CO range is going to have plenty of junky D2s that will make non premium D1s as well. And of course he may not have improved thus it’s a clear lead. C/C puts our hand face up as weak.

However say we were facing an UTG open in a six handed game. I would still lead in that spot too. But some advanced players have surmised that perhaps we shouldn’t lead a hand like 8763 in that spot. Think I’m still leading all of my D1s here but a conversation can be had about it
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04-12-2019 , 11:47 PM
#6
zoogenhiem
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For the record I thought at least check/call and maybe bet out (which now I appreciate to know is definitely a lead with all 1c draws) but my friend who was discussing this one with me was convinced it was a fold so that's why I posted here. Thanks all.
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04-12-2019 , 11:50 PM
#7
zoogenhiem
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I know it's tough to make generalizations, but in spots where you drew the same number HU and you improve to a better draw or pat hand, is it always going to be bet out or check/raise? Should you not have a check/calling range in this circumstance? Referring not just to flop but all streets here.
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04-13-2019 , 12:11 AM
#8
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
I know it's tough to make generalizations, but in spots where you drew the same number HU and you improve to a better draw or pat hand, is it always going to be bet out or check/raise? Should you not have a check/calling range in this circumstance? Referring not just to flop but all streets here.
Yes I think that generalization is around 98.5765448% to be true, except river of course
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04-13-2019 , 03:29 AM
#9
RolldUpTrips
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
I know it's tough to make generalizations, but in spots where you drew the same number HU and you improve to a better draw or pat hand, is it always going to be bet out or check/raise? Should you not have a check/calling range in this circumstance? Referring not just to flop but all streets here.
I am perfectly willing to generalize and say that you should never x/c when you improve in 2:2. If there exist spots where it is slightly correct, you will lose much more equity chasing those spots and being wrong than you save when you do it correctly.
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04-13-2019 , 05:06 PM
#10
zoogenhiem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips
I am perfectly willing to generalize and say that you should never x/c when you improve in 2:2. If there exist spots where it is slightly correct, you will lose much more equity chasing those spots and being wrong than you save when you do it correctly.
How would you play a hand like 7654 on the flop after 2:2? Or would you never defend any subset of those 3 cards even in the bb?

What do you with a rough 1 card draw like the original 7653 on flop after leading if you get raised?
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04-14-2019 , 04:54 AM
#11
RolldUpTrips
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
How would you play a hand like 7654 on the flop after 2:2? Or would you never defend any subset of those 3 cards even in the bb?

What do you with a rough 1 card draw like the original 7653 on flop after leading if you get raised?
As to the first question, what did I just say? I don't mean to be rude, but I literally just said lead any improvement and that if you're not it's a huge leak and then your next question is whether or not to lead improvement. I would defend 754 and 764 vs a single raise from LP/SB.

I call and draw 1. Sometimes snow next draw especially if ive seen at least 6 or so total good cards and especially vs a late position opener, since he will have started rougher and made, on average, weaker hands than an earlier position's open would.
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04-14-2019 , 02:37 PM
#12
ScotchOnDaRocks
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It’s possible the question is whether or not we would consider 4567 an improvement to a D1
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04-17-2019 , 10:25 AM
#13
zoogenhiem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks
It’s possible the question is whether or not we would consider 4567 an improvement to a D1
Thanks for eventually giving me the benefit of the doubt. That was in fact my implicit question. Because I got after your initial set of replies that 7653 was in fact sufficient improvement to lead even with the rough draw but then I upped the proverbial ante to a hand that could get us in a lot of trouble. I guess with 7654 we're planning to snow a lot going into the final draw?
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04-17-2019 , 01:10 PM
#14
ScotchOnDaRocks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
Thanks for eventually giving me the benefit of the doubt. That was in fact my implicit question. Because I got after your initial set of replies that 7653 was in fact sufficient improvement to lead even with the rough draw but then I upped the proverbial ante to a hand that could get us in a lot of trouble. I guess with 7654 we're planning to snow a lot going into the final draw?
Scroll up and reread the thread, I gave you the benefit of the doubt the entire time in this particular convo...

Well we don’t have to bet out the 4567 as it’s not really improvement to a D1 from my perspective. If we made say a T7654 I think a lead and then a quick pat is fine with this holding
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