i always cap pf if i'm planning to draw 1 card. i'm gonna assume most ppl here do the same.

capping for value and charging a 2 card draw is obviously great, but wat if we're hu vs a villain whom we know would never 3bet and draw 2? there are plenty of these around, in fact i play exactly as described vs an early posn open. villain's 3bet pf tells us he has a 1draw or pat. i usually still cap here cos it's never 100% certain that he doesn't have a 2draw or a misclick or wateva, but i'm wondering if, given the read, it's correct to just flat the 3b?

say i open 2347 utg, villain 3bets from mp, everyone else folds. we know he has a 1draw. sure, our 2347 is always a favourite vs another 1draw, but wat if we have a lesser draw like 8653. i dun really wanna base my actions on my hand's smoothness cos i dun want it to be obvious that i can't make a 7 when i dun cap pf.

thanks for listening, apologies for the rant, but i'm trying to learn.

I guess what the blinds do could have some influence. We're just assuming they've folded right?

I think if, after you raise in EP, it's been folded around to the villain (who only ever 3!s 1cs in LP against an EP raiser) and no-one has called his 3! back to you, why not just flat all 1cs? I'd imagine your positional disadvantage is going to hurt you enough that the equity you give up by not capping your best 1cs is made up for.

I 2 bet any 2 card draw and never 3 bet a 2 card draw.......I 3 bet any 1 card draw and never 4 bet any 1 card draw......

Simple I know but it creates balance.

its all about balance. if you are capping good 1 cards then ppl never know how good of a 1 card you have. if you call a 3 bet with some of your 1 cards then now you have to balance that with just calling with some of your good 1 card draws and then you lose value. Your going to get outplayed way too easily if you start call with 1 card draws.

and Hanndy youre a nit and u are losing value :P

yeah, i meant after everyone else has folded and it's hu. i've always just capped by default in this spot. how is flatting working out for u? also, wat if ur in posn, say if bb 3b ur utg open?

do u play this way in general or only when the pot becomes hu? i understand u favouring balance over immediate value if the pot is hu, but if it's multiway, i think u need to cap and make the 2 card draws pay.

I got my preflop raising/calling strategy from a VERY good $30-60 player (also a 2+2 guy)..........so I guess I'll keep doing what's working

Actually I'm the same as you, up to this point I've always been capping my 1c draws, and at .10/.20, that's been working for me very well, because almost no-one is only ever 3!ing 1cs, or the pot isn't HU.

I was just saying that I think you've made a good point, and I think I'll take the flatting option against these types of villains in the future.

Also, if I'm IP and BB 3! my UTG open, I'm still capping unless I think their range is mostly strong pats. Being HU in this spot is so rare at .10/.20 though.


Did they explain why you don't ever cap a 1c pre-draw? That does seem nitty when the villain could be 3!ing a wider range than 1cs and pats and you're IP.

As with anything in poker, nothing is certain. For example, I might even just call a single raise with very specific 1 card draws that draw poorly.

For example if UTG+1 raises and Button calls, I might just call from the SB with a hand like 7543, hoping to draw good in a multiway pot and make a deceptively strong hand (the nuts) and play a smaller pot when I miss or catch 8 or 9 or w/e.

In the same case, you'd never want to just call in the same scenario with a hand like 9764, you'd either 3 bet or fold depending on your image and opponents and other factors. When I see people just call a raise and draw 1 we can usually put them on some sort of rough 1 card draw either to a 9 or a bad 8 like 8763 or something, which makes it fairly easy to play against. That's why I'll usually just flat the hands that arent making much very often but are deceptively strong when they do come in (and there are very few hands that fit this mold)

[QUOTE=TX86s;21882655]i always cap pf if i'm planning to draw 1 card. i'm gonna assume most ppl here do the same.

Well, if it's 3 bet when it comes back to you, and even 2 decent players have called, I would nit up even with 2xx7 and not bet. To me, draw games and stud = card counting. How many outs are left for our wheel? What are the chances of our 2 or even 3 opponents catching ?
Now if I catch on a later street, hammer down! Also I don't think I play this game nearly as much as the rest of you, so I may be totally wrong here.I guess my thinking is closer to Manny's.

well..... I got mine from a 100/200 reg so to you too


fact is this if you are playing LAGgy enough ppl are going to try and 3 bet w/ 2 card draws trust me ppl do it to me all the time. This then makes all of my 1 card draws more profitable. i would def say cap if your in position too because that is such a huge advantage.

It amazes me that i am usually the only one opening and drawing 3. you all are nits I tell ya

Easiest "it depends" answer ever.

thanks for the responses. there doesn't seem to be a consensus, but garnered some interesting insight all the same. i might experiment flatting hu oop vs villains who always have 1draw+, but i'm still gonna cap vs unknowns.