Shawn ****ing Michaels

Just watched the inaugural Hell in a Cell 1997 at Badd Blood IYH

Shawn GOAT after that display, fn genius, what a convincing beating he took

It looked like he spat at a fan near the start of the match lol

This is the show where they discovered Pillman had died, so sad

You could see that most of the wrestlers were not that in to things on the night, probably because of this

(Apart from the GOATS sociopath Michaels and the Deadman)

Lol at Mcmahon mentioning/speculating the death was related to drugs when ot turned out not to be (officially).

Omfg the shoot interview with Melanie Pillman on Raw 228 was heartwrenching.
I cant believe they did that and aired it 2 days after he died

Very nice tribute afterwards though

The Jim Cornette worked shoot on Nash and co was amazing on the episode also, he was obv pissed about the treatment of Arn and Flair during that infamous NWO interview

I remember that Melanie Pillman interview being pretty terrible. Seemed really tone-deaf so closely following her husband's death. Don't think I've seen it since it aired though.

I was just listening to Cornette talk about doing those work/shoot segments last night. Said he never really wanted to do them and blamed Russo for what they eventually became when they started telling him what he was upset about.

Owen 3:16

I just broke your neck

Owen Hart GOAT WWE troll

That would be amazing.

At Survivor Series '88, WWF Champion Randy Savage gets one entrance in tandem with his team of jobbers, and then they all stand back and watch Hulk Hogan enter separately.

Jesse Ventura disappoints me by not thundering away at the ridiculousness.

Lol thats brutal and usually something Jesse would call out

Cant believe Lex Luger killed her. What a ****ing ****.

No Edge and Christian Show Season 2 makes me sad...

Hearkening back to that prior discussion we had about Hogan singlehandedly taking down the Twin Towers: I hadn't remembered that the Twin Towers eliminated Hogan cleanly at Royal Rumble. Now taking that into account, I wouldn't have them overcoming and pinning him 2-on-1 at that SNME either.

Probably the only thing I'd change about the booking is that if Hogan is going to be overcoming a 2-on-1, he probably should be successfully incapacitating the Boss Man and having him out of the picture entirely when he pins Akeem rather than them having Boss Man just watch the whole thing happen from the apron. (I think I'm getting it right as to who he pinned and who watched, but not sure and not fact-checking myself.)

In general I retract my criticism of that booking, now that I know that it was kind of him getting his win back from the Towers en route to regaining the title a couple of months later.

I'll always remember the Twin Towers eliminating Hogan because of that sourpuss response. lol Hogan. Gotta get his heat back!

I always think it was a pitiable spot to be Monsoon or another face announcer who had to defend Hogan's (kayfabe) ****ty behavior. Hogan's 80s mega-babyface character was such a *****. I really don't get how it seemed like a great idea to bookers to write him in such a bad light so often. Obviously he was historically popular regardless, but I don't know how that stuff could have helped.

Like when he grabbed Sids arm after he threw him out in the Rumble and helped Flair throw Sid out.

Just watched the screwjob for the first time, wow what a debacle!

I knew of the incident but had never seen both it, and the fallout. It really is popcorn.gif stuff

If it was a work, everyone played it amazing, from the close up look on Brets face when the bell rung to Vince and Slaughter assembling nervously on the floor when the match ended, it seemed real. The way they closed off the show so abruptly added to the realness too

The loogie that Bret fired off at Vince was super accurate lol, apparently he struck Vince later too (who had a mark to show for it) according to the intense interview on the following Raw, wow

I can totally see why Vince did this if Bret refused to drop the belt but what a ****y thing to do

Wow also at the next Raws and Nitros following up so quick, the next night Bischoff gloating that they have signed Bret to the NWO and Mcmahon explaining himself and saying he helped Bret sellout

Also the Degeneration X theme is ****ing awesome, sounds like very nice rip off off Rage Against the Machine

At this point there is no reason not to believe it was a shoot. Bret would have no reason to keep up the kayfabe, at least IMO.

I'm really not one given to conspiracies, but I still give the screwjob a non-negligible chance of being a work. The fact that Nash and Waltman openly believe that it was one is a bit difficult for me to hand-wave away.

If there's one person that would randomly keep kayfabe alive for no discernible reason decades later, it would be Bret

Well, Bret and others who are rigidly old-school. It's definitely a trait of his, but not one that he has a monopoly on.

Between the two, I'd expect Vince to be the far likelier one to eventually betray it as a work if that's what it was.

My initial first impression was it was a shoot that Bret anticipated could happen, just from his facial expression when he "gave up".

Interesting that Vince and Sarge hung around ringside to trigger Bret, maybe Vince wanted him to snap for the extra juicy footage?

Regardless if it was a work or shoot, the angle is amazingly good viewing

Well even if you assume that it's a shoot, Bret publicly states that referee Earl Hebner assured him that he would not double-cross him, so it's not as though the thought never occurred to Bret; his facial reaction makes sense with either conclusion. The story that Earl apparently gave Bret is that Earl was confronted behind the curtain right before the match that he was to cooperate or lose his job.

Bret always held that of all involved, he was the most forgiving of Earl because he understood that Earl was the most vulnerable and the most unable to realistically say no.

Also part of the story with Vince being physically present is that he sat next to the timekeeper at the double-cross point and elbowed him and yelled "ring the ****ing bell" to ensure that Hebner's call ended things.

Yeah that makes sense, Vince wouldve wanted to make sure the match was over

I dont know a lot of detail about the incident so this stuff is enlightening

Assuming a shoot, the apparent incident that really set things in motion was that Bret originally agreed to just do the job, and he tried to do right by telling Shawn that he was cool with doing this for him, and Shawn - who literally everyone will agree was just about the biggest ******* in the business at the time - responded by telling him that if the shoe was on the other foot then he would never do the job for Bret. Assuming that to all be true, it's understandable that it caused issues with Bret just wanting to go ahead as planned.

Bret and Austin always got along, and Bret has always been on record as saying that he would have been happy to drop the belt to Steve, which seems like it would have been the solution here.

Problem is that Survivor Series was already booked by this point, and any plan that involved going to Raw the next night with Bret still being WWF Champion was perilous for Vince. Bret had given his word that he would give up the belt then, and most agree that he wouldn't have pulled a double-cross, but of course Eric Bischoff would have been more than willing to announce whatever he wanted to on Nitro while Bret was still WWF World Champion. Basically Vince could probably trust Bret, but couldn't possibly trust Eric.