Wrestling- NVG (SPOILERS inside view at your own risk) - Page 212

Also if there's any possibility of clearing Daniel Bryan then he replaces Dean Ambrose in the above scenario very nicely. I would still put the belt on Reigns in that spot until I have any level of confidence that Bryan could stay healthy. Love the guy, but it's difficult to trust him with a belt right now. But obviously he could help hypothetical heel Reigns get over even better as a continuation of the Authority dicking him around.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 12:48 PM

#5277

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 96,031

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

Ryback?

I'd ****ing hate it, but he fits that description.

I mean, Ryback fits the very specific role of "guy a lot of people wouldn't want to see lose to Sheamus," but thankfully I cannot possibly imagine a scenario where you end Survivor Series with Ryback vs. Sheamus being your top program in the company. I mean, holy **** at the terrifying thought of that.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 12:50 PM

#5278

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

Completely agreed (and with everything else you said), but Ryback shipping this has a non-zero likelihood of happening.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 12:55 PM

#5279

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 96,031

Non-zero is probably true, but IMO it's close enough to zero for my comfort. I don't really fear that happening.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 12:58 PM

#5280

AJD804

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

I agree totally, but unless they have decided to scrap the idea of Reigns winning in the near future, I don't see anyway Bryan shows up anywhere near WWE TV for this tournament.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:00 PM

#5281

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Good stuff Lkj I think that's good booking

Which means we will probably get an extended big show title run instead

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:01 PM

#5282

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 96,031

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJD804

I agree totally, but unless they have decided to scrap the idea of Reigns winning in the near future, I don't see anyway Bryan shows up anywhere near WWE TV for this tournament.

That's why you only do it if you're turning Reigns. Obviously activating Bryan and having face Reigns win is just actively sabotaging your new face champion.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:05 PM

#5283

AJD804

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

That's why you only do it if you're turning Reigns. Obviously activating Bryan and having face Reigns win is just actively sabotaging your new face champion.

I could be wrong, but putting myself into WWE's shoes, I don't see a heel turn for Reigns anytime soon. In their eyes, they have worked long and hard to get him to this point as a face, and to throw all of that away seems foolish. Now a month ago I would tend to agree about a heel turn, but now that he appears to actually be getting more over the idea of a heel turn seems unlikely.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't do it, I'm just looking at it through the eyes of Mgmt. Of course if their plan the whole time was some sort of double turn with Rollins and Reigns then follow through on Reigns' end, I just don't think that was the case.

Last edited by AJD804; 11-06-2015 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Added last paragraph

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:09 PM

#5284

AJD804

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,042

Quote:

Originally Posted by gusmahler

Speaking of podcasts, Sam Roberts also had a special Rollins injury episode. He fantasy booked Reigns over Ambrose in the finals, with Reigns turning heel as Authority's "plan b"

There were some odd things about his booking. E.g., he wants a 16 man tourney, all on the PPV. 15 matches will not fit on a PPV.

But his reasoning for the heel turn is solid. Character-wise it doesn't make sense for Ambrose to turn. He's a "lunatic" who doesn't care about titles, so he wouldn't turn heel to get the gold. OTOH, Reigns is interested in gold, he needs a mouthpiece, and you don't have to worry about fans turning on him as a face.

Then you can have Bryan win RR and do Bryan/Reigns for the title at WM.

Someone needs to tell Roberts to watch WM 4 and then rethink his idea. I figure if he starts today, he might be done in time for SS.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:16 PM

#5285

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 96,031

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJD804

A few points:
1. Reigns still gets spotty reception. He would absolutely have gotten a big pop if he went over Seth Rollins; almost no question about that. It set up perfectly to just put him over Seth in that spot. The timing of Seth's injury isn't just bad for Seth...it's also bad for Roman. Roman going over another heel on this current roster isn't going to get as good of a reaction. I think it runs way too high of a risk of his crowning moment going over flat. To be clear, it COULD work, but the probabilities of it not going well seem too high for me to tolerate if I'm booking things.

2. A heel turn doesn't actually set a guy's babyface potential back to square one. The goal, first and foremost, is to get a big crowd reaction, positive or negative. It's the "thin line between love and hate" thing. A well-executed heel turn increases his reaction, and makes it more reliable in all of the arenas they hit. Obviously he eventually turns face again one day, and his babyface success is almost certainly helped out if he has a good heel run.

3. They now have a top heel role that needs filling. Even if Seth was going to lose the title here - and I think he was - I very much believe he was going to stay near the main event level. They need someone in that top heel spot now. I can't readily name a better person for the spot from what is currently available.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:18 PM

#5286

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 96,031

And I guess the fourth point goes back to what I just said, that babyface Reigns is going to defend against who going forward? I guess you can try to make it work, but a heel turn at the top of the card is a refresher from the top down when it comes to a company's booking. And there really isn't a lot of downside in turning Roman.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:27 PM

#5287

DWetzel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 42,349

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

That's why you only do it if you're turning Reigns. Obviously activating Bryan and having face Reigns win is just actively sabotaging your new face champion.

But it's a pretty nice way to instigate a heel turn from Reigns, if you wanted to go that way. "I'm sick of getting my career jerked around by You People" would have a ring of truth to it.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 01:53 PM

#5288

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKJ

I wouldn't clear Bryan unless I was willing to have him take a pop-up powerbomb from Kevin Owens on his first night back.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 02:53 PM

#5289

DWetzel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 42,349

How I think I'd book it if you want a face Reigns as champ:

Spoiler:

Get me to a Reigns-Ambrose final somehow, whatever, maybe tease Ambrose getting some help from the Authority in an early round against Ziggler or Ryback or something.

Pre-match promos are simple. Ambrose: "You know you've been like a brother to me, you've had my back and I've had yours, but when we get in the ring none of that matters." Reigns: "Wouldn't have it any other way."

Match: Code of Honor handshake to start, Reigns mostly winning because he's bigger, Ambrose taking some liberties with the rules to stay even because he's Dean Ambrose and gives zero ****s. Late match, HHH and Friends wander down to ringside to watch, or maybe HHH is at the announce table from the start, doesn't much matter. Reigns about to hit Ambrose with his stupid baseball slide outside the ring move, HHH makes a move at him, gets decked, Reigns wins in short order, exhausted after his third long (for him) match of the day.

Ambrose rolls back in to the ring with a chair and waffles Reigns in the back with it while his arm is raised, in a callback to the original Shield breakup. Sheamus comes down, cashes in obviously, Sheamus hits a couple moves and backs into a corner for a quick Brogue kick... and Ambrose waffles HIM in the back with a chair as the ref's back is turned, into a spear by Reigns, 1-2-3 (because finishers are 750% more effective when surprised) and Ambrose taunts a furious HHH and high-fives Reigns for outwitting the Authority.

The next couple months kind of write themselves as HHH throws everything at them to get the belts back, maybe he gets to Ambrose, maybe he doesn't, maybe they throw some weight behind ADR, maybe Orton comes back and turns heel on them when he comes back. You have options if you can get through the next two months and get some people back. That probably involves an awful Reigns-Big Show match or something, but cest la vie.

Basically, because they have no real main event caliber heel, they need to do what they did before they built up Rollins and make The Authority the de facto top heel, with whoever they throw at the champ as pawns in their game.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 02:57 PM

#5290

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,231

Who does everyone think is the lowest guy on the kayfabe hierarchy that can win the tournament (with or without a Sheamus cash-in)? Caveat being that it can't be a complete farce (i.e. no Zack Ryder or Fernando or Fandango....).

Quote

11-06-2015 , 03:02 PM

#5291

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 96,031

Owens. Can't get lower on the kayfabe hierarchy than being the IC Champ, right?

Quote

11-06-2015 , 03:06 PM

#5292

AJD804

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,042

I hate when people try and put qualifiers on someone else's question, but I think the answer depends on whose POV we are looking at this from. If we are looking at it from WWE's perspective, then I think the answer is Kane or Big Show. I think they would have no issues putting the title on either of those two if it was needed.

I think from the fans POV the answer is Cesaro, and that is only because he has had only one win the last 438843 weeks of RAW.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 03:08 PM

#5293

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

O/u 95% chance reigns or Sheamus leave ppv with title

Quote

11-06-2015 , 03:13 PM

#5294

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 96,031

Quote:

Originally Posted by diskoteque

O/u 95% chance reigns or Sheamus leave ppv with title

I think I would bet a negligible amount of money on the field vs. Reigns and Sheamus if I was getting 20-1.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 03:43 PM

#5295

AJD804

banned

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,042

There is a site that has odds on the tournament:

Reigns 9/20
Lesnar 10/3
Cena 11/2
Ambrose 7/1
Owens 7/1
ADR 10/1
Cesaro 10/1
Kane 10/1
Orton 10/1
Wyatt 12/1
Sheamus 12/1
Ziggler 14/1
Bautista 18/1
Undertaker 18/1
Big E 20/1
Kofi 20/1
Neville 25/1

Quote

11-06-2015 , 03:46 PM

#5296

moorobot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 9,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

Hard to say because they just had Rollins go on the streak where he lost (usually by pin) 14 out of 15 matches or whatever while being the world champion.

After the top few guys the rest of the roster is basically booked as being on the same tier; the 50/50 big midcard club. Any of those guys could win because most of the top booked guys are hurt or part time.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 04:10 PM

#5297

ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S

What SN is this?

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 29,325

I feel like Cena is getting the belt back and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Still too soon for Reigns and probably Ambrose, Lesnar would be a terrible option, and Cesaro/Owens/Sheamus would change the landscape too much.

Pulling the trigger on Kofi and letting New Day become dominant would be fun too.

Quote

11-06-2015 , 05:39 PM

#5298

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Sadly, I think Brock would come in and wrestle if it was one match but since it'll be 3, he probably wants paid three times.

Only realistic winners I see are Cena and....nobody else. I also would bet against Cena competing. None of the guys going for the belt would make sense defending the belt at WM which is likely where this person is to end up. So, it'll probably be Reigns or if I'm lucky, it's Lesnar.