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Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap

07-11-2016 , 04:59 PM
I watched it sometime last year and 97 Souled Out is probably the single worst ppv I've ever seen. It's dreadfully boring.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-11-2016 , 06:02 PM
Well now if I get two more posts in and then suddenly go dark for several months, you can rest easy with the knowledge that I'm cowering in a corner somewhere, afraid to start watching that show.

IYH: Great White North in '95 was dreadful from start to finish, but at least it was only two hours.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-11-2016 , 06:16 PM
Surprised not much comment on the booking of the rumble match itself. I kind of hated it in real time, though I admittedly was a Bret mark and not a big Austin fan. I guess it's not all that different from any of a billion matches where someone blatantly cheats when the ref's back is turned and then gets the win, but the way it was done in the context of the royal rumble just felt like a more egregious violation of kayfabe to me. Like you've got a half dozen refs working the match who literally have nothing to monitor other than whether someone has fallen out of one of 4 sides of the ring, and somehow they all mange to miss that one of 5 remaining wrestlers got dumped out and spent a full 5 seconds standing outside the ring before just saying 'screw it' and rolling back in. I stopped watching for a while after this event because I just couldn't get over how dumb it was.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-11-2016 , 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated
I watched it sometime last year and 97 Souled Out is probably the single worst ppv I've ever seen. It's dreadfully boring.
I won't spoil it for LKJ by saying what happened, but Souled Out and it's immediate aftermath had the incident that caused me to stop watching WCW, or at least to stop tuning in regularly and caring what happened. For a person who grew up thinking the NWA-WCW was great and the WWF was just some kids' show, it really took a lot to get me to turn the channel. Bischoff pulled it off, though.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-11-2016 , 07:35 PM
It's odd that I watched this whole period when it happened and really have no idea what you're referencing, but I appreciate the non-spoiler.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-11-2016 , 10:37 PM
I've read and heard many comments throughout the years describing that one moment that made someone stop watching a wrestling company. Often they are seemingly relatively minor things that just pushed them over the edge rather than the giant awful moments that are written about forever.

About Luger, when I started watching wrestling, nobody talked about star ratings and a ton of people talked about who would win the match if it were real. Luger was a big, strong, real athlete who was built like a God, so people thought he was legit. Over time, as matches became less and less concerned with looking realistic, the debates about who was really better if it were a shoot tended to go away, and talk about star ratings and booking and such replaced them.

Last edited by moorobot; 07-11-2016 at 10:43 PM.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-12-2016 , 10:22 PM
January 20, 1997

RAW

Beaumont, TX

We start on a shot of the front page of the San Antonio newspaper, where apparently the Royal Rumble got a little blurb. Vince magnifies it and talks about it as proof that the whole world is buzzing about last night's event. Vince is so painfully desperate for mainstream acceptance; it's truly cringeworthy. We get a recap of the main results, Shawn Michaels's title win and Steve Austin's tainted Rumble win.

The three-man booth from last night is continuing, so thankfully we have Jim Ross alongside Vince McMahon and Jerry Lawler tonight. As they introduce the show, JR says that Gorilla Monsoon has a major announcement to make tonight, and also we're going to see Steve Austin take on The Undertaker. As he mentions that forthcoming Austin-Taker match, Bret Hart comes marching out with a purpose.



He enters the ring and angrily snatches the microphone away from Howard Finkel.

Quote:
There's something I've gotta say. Something I've gotta say, and something I've gotta say to YOU (points toward Vince). You know, when I decided to come back to the World Wrestling Federation, you promised me that I would get an opportunity to fight for the World Wrestling Federation Championship belt. You put me in the ring with Stone Cold Steve Austin and said that if I can beat Stone Cold Steve Austin, then I would be the #1 contender for the World Wrestling Federation Championship belt. Now don't you think it's just a little bit convenient that for some stupid reason Shawn Michaels finds himself out at ringside, announcing at my championship match with Psycho Sid. I don't think that it was any kind of coincidence either. So Shawn Michaels jumps up and sticks his nose in my business, and costs me the World Wrestling Federation Championship belt with blatant interference. The "Boy Toy" cost me the championship.

And they go, "That's okay, don't worry about it, because now you can go in the Royal Rumble, and you only have to fight 29 other guys, and then you'll get your opportunity. So I went in the ring, and it's very very clear to me that I won the Royal Rumble, and I should be getting the World Wrestling Federation Championship belt. Where is my opportunity? You know, the way that I look at things right now, I've been screwed by Shawn Michaels, the "Boy Toy," I've been screwed by Stone Cold Steve Austin, I've been screwed by the World Wrestling Federation, and I've been screwed by YOU!

I don't like to make idle threats. So the way I see things, it doesn't look like I'm gonna get my opportunity for a shot at the World Wrestling Federation Championship belt…so I quit.


Vince tries half-heartedly to urge Bret to stay, but Bret exits through the crowd. A "we want Bret" chant goes up as he leaves. Scan back to the ring, and Stone Cold Steve Austin has taken up residence in there and has grabbed a mic. After the first one doesn't work, he starts talking into the second one.

Quote:
You gonna give me a piece of equipment that works son, or am I gonna have to whip your ass? Bret Hart you can sit there and bellyache and complain with the best of 'em, son. Ever since you came back, you ain't done nothin' but cry. You sit there and talk about how Vince screwed ya, how everybody screwed ya, how I screwed ya. The bottom line is, son, when the going gets tough, the Harts get going, back home. Go on back to Canada, son. … Because the only one you can possibly beat is your wrinkled-up old man in his little old basement.



You talk about being jerked around, I've been jerked around for seven years, and when I get here I'm supposed to face Psycho Sid tonight and some guy, some 350-pound buffoon who calls himself Gorilla Monsoon, the Commissioner, says, "No, no, Psycho Sid is at home with a concussion." Psycho Sid may be at home with a concussion and an icepack on his head, but he's also got a yellow stripe running down the middle of his back. As far as Gorilla Monsoon goes, I've got a whole bunch of bananas, and I can tell you where to stick each and every one of 'em. You want me to face The Undertaker, you can bring his dead ass out here, because I threw it over the top last night, and I'll do the exact same thing right now. So bring him on out; I've got something for him.
Vince has left without a word; Lawler laughs gleefully about it, speculating that he quit right after Bret did.

After a commercial, Steve Austin has left, and I guess we're getting a tag team match at this point in the show. Jerry Lawler is still cackling about Bret Hart quitting the company. Before the next match begins, we see stills of Owen Hart eliminating the British Bulldog from last night's Rumble, which Lawler says is a mistake.

Owen Hart & The British Bulldog (w/ Clarence Mason) vs. Doug Furnas & Philip LaFon: This is clarified to be non-title up front. It seems a bit weird to me that they carried on the relationship with Clarence Mason managing these guys after he joined in with The Nation of Domination. The Nation just seems like a full-time thing for his character. We start on Owen vs. LaFon. Arm-wringer takedowns from LaFon, but Owen escapes both. Fireman carry takeover from LaFon as well. They continue the back-and-forth mat wrestling, with LaFon getting the better of more of the exchanges. Heel kick by LaFon, and he tags in Furnas. Running shoulderblock by Furnas, then an Irish whip and the patented Furnas dropkick gets two. Nice overhead release belly-to-belly suplex gets another two.



Hart reverses a whip and connects on a spinning wheel kick, creating the opening to tag out. Furnas reverses a whip by Bulldog and executes a nice hurracanrana. Bulldog takes a rest, then re-enters as LaFon has tagged in. Bulldog works him into his own corner, then distracts referee Jimmy Korderas and lets Owen gets his shots in. Still, LaFon is back after him quickly, executing a jawbreaker and then grapevining Davey Boy's leg. Back to a vertical base, Owen Hart takes a blind tag and then blindsides Furnas with a nice missile dropkick off the top. Korderas is slow to count, only gets to two, and we head to commercial.

As we get back from break, they're advertising La Femme Nikita as Owen and Davey double-clothesline Furnas on a wide shot, and once we focus in, Owen stomps the lower abdomen and then jumps through and drops the elbow. Furnas counters a Sharpshooter attempt by powering Owen away with his legs, but Owen at least keeps enough control to tag his brother-in-law. The ensuing double-team attempt fails though, as Furnas ducks them and then double-clotheslines the both of them. Owen dives to prevent the hot tag, and returns Furnas to enemy territory. Furnas does connect on a cross-body to get a near-fall, but Owen comes back a moment later with his patented enziguri, one that carries an especially loud audible thud to the back of Furnas's head. Two-count for him.



Davey with his signature delayed suplex. Two. Owen with an Irish whip and that tremendous catch into a belly-to-belly. Quickly climbs the ropes and goes for a top-rope headbutt from over halfway across the ring, but Furnas rolls away. Finally the hot tag to LaFon. LaFon takes it to eh Tag Team Champions, hitting a spinning heel kick on Owen and then a snap-suplex on Davey followed by a running backsplash for two. Another suplex, another two. Davey reverses a whip, but LaFon counters on the way back into a botched DDT. Damn; I'm not hard on botches, but I was just thinking to myself how perfectly-executed every move in this match has been. Owen breaks up the pin attempt, and Furnas violently knocks him outside. Owen collects his Slammy, and as the referee is distracted in his attempt to get Furnas, Hart clocks LaFon with the trophy. Running powerslam by Davey, 1-2-3.



Very nice match. Not sure about letting Owen and Davey score a pin there in a non-title match. I think the feud continues, but shouldn't that booking kind of blow it off? Anyway, still certainly enjoyed.

Result: Owen Hart & The British Bulldog via pinfall

They replay Shawn Michaels's entrance from last night, unfortunately giving more airtime to that awful entrance outfit.

As the Nation of Domination enters, JR says, "To think that this issue between Faarooq and Ahmed Johnson is over…would be a huge, huge understatement." Whoops. We see the replay of Ahmed tossing a random Nation member through the ringside table last night.

As the next match is beginning, JR advertises Austin vs. Undertaker for later, and adds, "You won't have to sit through Robin Hood to see it." I would appreciate this dig more if it wasn't such a blatant example of throwing stones from a glass house.

Faarooq (w/ the Nation of Domination) vs. Bart Gunn: Hip-toss, dropkick, armdrag from Bart. By the way, I'm beginning to think that the "Bart paralyzes Billy" thing just gets dropped without a comment, as I think I know what Billy's next appearance is. Bart controls Faarooq on the mat as the show goes to break.

Things have straightened out for Mr. Simmons during the commercials, as he's putting the boots to Gunn when we get back and then follows with a truly awful attempt at a spinebuster. I liked Ron Simmons, but it would have been better not to repeatedly do a terrible rendition of a move that Arn Anderson is doing perfectly on the other station. Anyway, he continues to control the offense against Bart, even battling through a spot where he gets kicked in the face short of a backdrop attempt. Heads up top, dives off from there, Bart sidesteps him and plants him in the mat. Bart gets a flurry of offense, with several clotheslines and then a bulldog.

PG-13 runs interference and puts Faarooq's foot on the rope on the pin after the bulldog, and that baits Gunn out to the floor to confront them. That of course leaves him open to attack from Faarooq. Crush gently returns Bart inside, Faarooq hits the Dominator and takes it down.



Result: Faarooq via pinfall

As the Nation exits up the aisle, they cross paths with Vince McMahon and Gorilla Monsoon. After a break, Vince yields the floor to Gorilla, who for some reason gets booed by the live crowd. Monsoon says that he's sorry to hear about Bret's earlier announcement, and that he only hopes that Bret is in a spot where he can hear this announcement and accept the invitation he's about to give. Gorilla calls last night's result a travesty. He says that the referee's decision is final, and Steve Austin will go in the books as the winner of the Royal Rumble. However, he says that the tainted win from last night will not entitle him to a title shot at WrestleMania.



He says that he's setting up a unique match, a four-man elimination no DQ match, with the winner going on to win a title shot at WrestleMania 13. The four participants: The Undertaker and Vader - both illegally eliminated by Austin last night - as well as Bret Hart, if he accepts, and the fourth will be Steve Austin himself. Then Gorilla says "thank you" and tries to leave Vince hanging.



Steve Austin marches out to the ring and yells at Gorilla for a bit. "You call yourself Gorilla, but you're out here hee-hawing like a jackass." He says that when he gets done with the four-way, he'll toss Gorilla's carcass around the arena. He gets in Gorilla's face, and Vince tries to step in, then gets an earful of his own.



Mr. McMahon was just itching to get out. As this exchange goes on, Bret Hart re-enters through the crowd. He gets into the ring, picks up a mic, and says, "I accept!" He challenges Austin to fight right there, and they come to blows in the aisle, trading fists until Bret takes Austin down and they roll around on the ground a bit as officials step in to separate them. They continue brawling, with Bret slamming Austin into the ringside steps as the show goes to commercial.



After we get back from commercial, Austin is in the ring and the ringside officials are still forcibly holding Bret back. We hear the gong, Undertaker marches down the aisle, and he immediately hauls off on Bret. Those two fight for a bit until Bret finally gets backed away. With Taker still distracted by Bret, Austin attacks from behind, and that match has started. Vince has rejoined the commentary team.

Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker: Stiff punch by Taker outside, the two get in the ring, and…okay, there's the actual opening bell. Taker slams Austin down violently when Austin goes for a backdrop. Arm-wringer, walks the top ropes, drops the hammer. The dead man is dominant early, hammering Austin down in the corner and then knocking him across the ring. Austin finally turns the tide by countering a backdrop attempt into a swinging neckbreaker. Back elbow by Austin gets two. JR and Vince say that Taker broke two ribs last night, and they wonder if Austin knows about it. In a funny bit that goes on for several minutes, Lawler keeps trying to scream to Austin to go after the ribs while Vince tries to tell him to shut up.

Austin raises a boot on a corner charge, then follows with an axhandle off the second turnbuckle. Lawler actually gets up from the announce table to get closer to the ring to try to coach Austin into targeting the ribs. Austin is on the attack, but Taker kicks backward to connect on a low blow. He's slow to follow though, and as he grabs Austin, Austin counters with a Stone Cold Stunner. He's spent after the Stunner though, and stays down on the mat. Meanwhile we see a live shot from backstage, where Bret Hart and Vader are being separated. Show goes to commercial on that note.



After the break, the main event continues. Austin drops an elbow and records a two-count. Stone Cold drops more elbows, then slowly climbs the ropes. He takes too much time, allowing Taker to get up and kick the top rope, crotching Austin. UT follows him up, makes as if he's going to execute a superplex, but Austin punches his ribs to knock him off and then hits a second-rope elbow. Still only a two-count. Taker ducks a clothesline, then hits a flying clothesline of his own. Enter Vader, who was accompanied by his apparent new manager Paul Bearer. Vader attacks, the bell rings, Bret Hart is in, and the four who will compete at the main event of the next PPV go at it. Austin and The Undertaker were doing some strong work together here before the non-ending.



Result: No Contest

Bret and Austin brawl in the aisle while Taker and Vader battle in the ring. The fighting continues until the show fades out.

Overall: Really, really strong episode. Aside from that fairly short throw-away match between Faarooq and Bart Gunn, this episode never stopped bringing the heat. Good wrestling, compelling story work, and although I obviously knew it was coming on this viewing, that booking for a four-way at the next PPV is a good decision.

NITRO

Chicago, IL

This show gets off to a quick start. In the middle of the usual pan-through of the crowd, we're caught off-guard by a familiar face.



Randy Savage jumps the guardrail, grabs a chair from ringside, and enters. Ring announcer Dave Penzer hands him a mic.

Quote:
Here's the deal: I've been blackballed. And I'm not leaving here tonight until I talk to somebody who's got some major stroke. Nitro is a two-hour show. I've got no plans…I'm plannin' to stay here all night. And one other thing: I got a message for my ex-WCW boss Eric Bischoff. You can kiss my ass!
Savage sets up the chair and sits down. He grabs a mic and yells, "I'm waiting!" Chavo Guerrero's entrance music hits because he's scheduled for the opening bout. Chavo cautiously makes his way down, not really knowing what to do. He eventually enters the ring and seems to try to reason with Savage to get out. Larry Zbyszko comments on how a live Nitro match is a big deal for an up-and-comer like Chavo Guerrero. Guerrero's continued verbal attempts to coax Savage out go on for a while. Savage eventually gets up and clocks him, then tosses him out of the ring.

Maxx, who was scheduled to be Chavo's opponent, comes out next and enters the ring. Savage beats him down as well. Then Savage tosses the referee out. Here's Doug Dillinger, who tries to talk to Savage, but Savage shoves him down violently. Enter Alex Wright, who suffers the same fate. The Steiner Brothers and Amazing French Canadians come out into the aisle and holler at Savage to get out. With things in disarray, we see our first glimpse of a moment that would become very familiar.



Sting lowers from the rafters to the floor, then walks toward the ring wielding a bat. He points the bat at Savage as he gets closer to ringside. Savage has returned to a seated position in the ring as Sting slowly circles him, firmly whacking the chair with the bat a couple of times. He places the bat under Savage's throat, shoves him off, then sticks the head of the bat in Savage's chest and shoves him back. Sting hands Savage the bat and turns away from him. Savage tosses the bat back to Sting, who catches it and begins to depart. Savage follows Sting out, and the two leave through the crowd. With that, the show goes to break. Pretty electric opening segment.



After break, we see clips of Masa Chono joining the nWo last month.

Chris Jericho vs. Alex Wright: Both guys get jobber entrances. They lock up, Jericho with an armdrag, then the two fight over dueling arm-wringers. Jericho with a flying shoulderblock, a dropkick, a crescent kick, and a two-count. Chops Wright in the corner. Wright ducks a clothesline and hits a bicycle kick. Jericho with a side headlock, Wright attempts to counter into a pin, they both get failed pin attempts in, but Jericho counters Wright's next move into a botched victory roll and gets a three-count despite one of Wright's shoulders basically never being down. Really short match, flubbed ending…not much to say for this.



Result: Chris Jericho via pinfall

Fake Sting vs. Scotty Riggs: Boy, this is…I don't know who could possibly want to see this match. Riggs with a jumping back elbow, then a dropkick. Zbyszko comments that he can't call this imposter "Sting." Tony suggests just calling him "nWo Sting" or "Bogus Sting." Zbyszko counters with, "How about 'Stink'? That's shorter." Boy, between that and "New World Odor," it's kind of amazing that Larry never got an announcing gig in Vince McMahon's company. Backdrop by Riggs. Fake Sting reverses a whip, then catches Riggs and pulls him down into a stun gun. Backbreaker to follow. Riggs gets his boot up on a corner charge, then jumps up to the second turnbuckle and hits a dropkick from there. Two-count as Riggs gets up, distracted, and looks toward the aisle. Marcus Bagwell is posing and flexing and showing that the word "Buff" is written along the back of his shirt.

Bagwell charges into the ring, and Riggs runs for his life as the bell rings.

Result: Scotty Riggs via DQ

There are nWo reinforcements behind Bagwell, but Riggs just straight-up ran away from Bagwell. He then jumps over the guardrail and into the crowd, and when Bagwell confronts him there, Riggs…slaps him and then ducks away. THAT is how you hype Riggs vs. Bagwell for the PPV? The ****ing babyface runs in terror from the heel, then only further involves himself to slap the heel in the face and then duck away?



The nWo surrounds Dave Penzer, who has first announced Riggs as the winner by DQ, and they all scream at him until he announces the winner to be Sting by countout.

We get a pre-taped promo with Ric Flair and Bob Probert of the Chicago Blackhawks. I don't remember Probert playing for them, but I'm a casual hockey fan at best. Probert says he has to be in Buffalo for a game tonight, but next time WCW is in town he'll be there to fight alongside the Four Horsemen.

Arn Anderson & Mongo McMichael (w/ Debra) vs. Eddie Guerrero & Jeff Jarrett: WTF kind of weird pairing is Jarrett and Guerrero? My immediate assumption is that this is Eddie randomly signing up to get ambushed. Maybe there's some WCW Saturday Night background. This Chicago crowd is naturally pro-Mongo, and Jarrett gets big heat once Eddie's entrance music dies down. Jarrett vs. Arn to open this match. Some back-and-forth early, with Jarrett scoring a two-count on a top-rope cross-body. Tag to Eddie.

Arn tags to Mongo. This is the only arena in the country where a crowd would go ape**** for Mongo. Shoulderblock by the big man gets a rise out of the crowd, and they're just eating out of his hand as he sets up a press slam, but Eddie counters into an armdrag. Dropkick by Guerrero, but on his follow-up Mongo backdrops him out of the ring. Follows him outside and sends him hard into the guardrail. Tag out to Arn. Eddie manages to bail out soon after to Jarrett, and Jarrett takes on both Horsemen. Eddie…runs away? He's shown sprinting up the aisle and into the shadows. I don't know what's going on. We get the patented spinebuster from Arn. Tony Schiavone says, "Apparently Syxx had made an appearance." Ah, incompetent WCW production just didn't catch that extremely key fact. Arn slaps on a Boston crab on a prone Jeff Jarrett, Mongo stomps away at Jarrett while he's in the hold, and Debra actually enters the ring, throwing in her beauty pageant sash, and she pleads for the referee to stop the match. And he does. So one team's manager can submit on the opponent's behalf? Seems legit.



Result: Arn Anderson & Mongo McMichael via submission

Arn is pissed and confronts Debra. Mongo sticks up for his wife and backs Arn down.

Mean Gene, at the top of the aisle, brings out Ric Flair. Flair, rocking a suit, enters, and the Horsemen surround him, including Chris Benoit and Woman. Flair says that he's on the mend and putting his body back together, but in the meantime he's concerned that the Horsemen are not the unit that they once were. He urges Benoit and Mongo to be Horsemen first. Arn says that this faction is going to be strong as long as the names "Flair" and "Anderson" are involved. To some extent Benoit tries to make nice with Mongo and Debra, to which Mongo points out that unlike Benoit's meetings with Jarrett, he and Arn just had Jarrett down and out. And then Nitro's music hits and people walk off. More often than not, these Horsemen segments are crap at this point. Oh, but Debra sticks around to say that Woman is "a big-hearted woman…with hips to match."



After commercial, there's a pre-taped black-and-white Eric Bischoff nWo promo. Completely worthless, and it goes on for several minutes.

Dean Malenko vs. Ultimo Dragon (w/ Sonny Onoo): These guys start from jobber entrances as well. Side headlock by Dragon, Malenko counters into an armbar, Dragon into multiple arm-wringers and then an Irish whip and a dropkick. Kick sequence from Ultimo puts Dean on the mat, then he drives a knee into the gut. Malenko counters with a powerslam a moment later, putting the Dragon down for a count of two. Ultimo gets a boot up on a corner charge, but gives chase and again eats a powerslam that gets a legit near-fall for Malenko. Brainbuster by the Iceman. Two. Reverse chinlock for a moment, then he picks things back up to a standing position. He corner-whips the Dragon, then follows in with a clothesline. He gets careless and runs into a handspring back elbow by Ultimo that knocks him out of the ring, but Ultimo's follow-up pescado comes up empty as well.

Dragon reverses a whip into the guardrail outside and then throws a stiff kick to the guts. He returns Malenko inside, scales the ropes, Dean sneaks up behind and lifts him onto his shoulders for an apparent electric chair drop, but Dragon counters into a sunset flip. Dean sits down instead, gets a two-count, Dragon counters into his own pin combo for two as well. Malenko raises a boot on a corner charge, but Ultimo is right back after him, chopping upward, climbing the ropes, executing the spinning hurracanrana from up top. Two-count.



Malenko blocks a powerbomb attempt, Dragon tries a kick and Malenko does a sweet counter into an ankle lock, but Dragon scrambles to the ropes. Magistral cradle by Ultimo, and he snags a fairly abrupt three-count out of nowhere.

Result: Ultimo Dragon via pinfall

Tony Schiavone immediately says that Malenko will get another shot at Dragon at Clash of the Champions for the Cruiserweight Title, which makes no sense to me. From his wording I'm guessing that this was a title match, but with no entrances, or anything aside from an opening bell, that was never made clear. But in any case, Dragon has now taken the title from Dean cleanly and then beaten him cleanly in a follow-up match. Malenko should have to climb back up the rankings instead of just getting another shot. However, since these two are pure greatness together, I'll look the other way.

As the second hour of Nitro begins, we see that Tony Schiavone, now joined by Bobby Heenan and Mike Tenay, is wearing a Blackhawks jersey at the announce desk like a douchebag. Not only is he wearing that jersey to the broadcast, but it's a v-neck and he's wearing no undershirt. Whatever.



The crew talks over the Savage/Sting stuff from the start of the show and expresses their confusion for a couple of minutes before we head back to the ring.

TV Title - Lord Steven Regal (c) vs. Jacques Rougeau (w/ Col. Parker): Regal works Rougeau's arm early, then transitions into a side headlock. Col. Parker trips Regal from the floor, then clocks Regal when Jacques knocks him outside. Jacques works the advantage for a moment, then rolls the TV Champ back in, but lowers his head for a backdrop and gets kicked in the face. Regal gets tripped again by Parker and stomps on his hand, but that creates the opening for Jacques to attack. Jacques holds Regal up, Parker just brazenly enters the ring - which referee Mark Curtis doesn't care a thing about - but he ****s up and accidentally hits Rougeau instead of Regal. Oh, I guess Mark Curtis does care; there's the bell. Regal atomic drops Parker into Rougeau and clears the ring, getting the default face pop for this heel vs. heel match. I can't imagine what the point of that match was.



Result: Lord Steven Regal via DQ

The Taskmaster (w/ Jimmy Hart) vs. Chris Benoit (w/ Woman): Jimmy Hart channels Daniel Bryan as he leads Kevin Sullivan to the ring with a "yes!" chant, but it isn't a full entrance; Benoit attacks violently from behind to get this thing going.



The brawl is on at this point, as the lights come up and the two trade fists. Sullivan slams Benoit violently into the guardrail, and they head straight up the steps through the crowd. They fight in the concourse, and we get a dose of shaky cam as the camera man gets jostled among the masses. The action is back in the men's room. Sullivan slams Benoit's hand in a stall door, and…I see that Woman wasn't shy about following into the men's room. Sullivan slams Benoit into a picture above the urinal. Benoit rips the plexi-glass from the picture frame and waffles Sullivan. Doug Dillinger tries to step in the middle, but Benoit puts him down. Probably the first Nitro where Dillinger takes two bumps in a night, minor though they were. Tenay notes that this match isn't actually officially started, as they never got to the ring and there was never a bell. Sullivan slams Benoit head-first into the concrete wall, creating a sickening thud.



They fight their way back into the crowd, and Sullivan gets cross-checked pretty hard by some random fan in a red shirt. Bears fans are such cavemen. Sullivan shakes it off and continues with the match, beating Benoit down the stairs and then slamming him into a guardrail once they reach the floor. Tony notes that these two are going to go at it again tomorrow night at the Clash. WTF, why are they openly announcing multiple automatic rematches two nights in a row like this? Sullivan repossesses a full beer from a fan along the guardrail and slings it into Benoit's face. Benoit returns fire, getting a fan's drink and doing likewise to Sullivan. They get in the ring, and only now referee Randy Anderson calls for an opening bell.

The Crippler sets Sullivan up on the top turnbuckle and sets up for a back superplex, but Sullivan punches him off. He smashes Benoit into that turnbuckle before setting him up in the tree of woe. Benoit escapes the tree of woe and lays in a series of punches and chops. Goes for a back suplex, but Sullivan kicks backward for a low blow. Atomic drop by Sullivan launches Benoit forward into the buckle, and he jerks back upon impact and the two collide, both going down. Jimmy Hart gives the ring bell to Sullivan. And…oh my God. You could see where it was headed, but you didn't want it to happen. Benoit goes for his swandive headbutt, Sullivan holds up the ring bell, and Benoit's diving headbutt hits the bell hard, causing a minor ring to go up. That was such a cringe-inducing bump. It sounded so ****ing bad.



Hart pulls the Taskmaster on top of Benoit, Benoit is out cold, and the Taskmaster gets the three-count.

Result: The Taskmaster via pinfall



After the match, as Woman tends to Benoit in the ring, they show a moment from the bathroom earlier where Benoit was beating on Sullivan and Sullivan shot a pained glance over to Woman watching alongside. ****, that was some good subtlety by Sullivan, and I give props to Schiavone for seeing it, because I had to rewind and rewatch and even pause after he pointed it out.



I'm penciling that one in pretty firmly as tonight's match of the night, and that's an actual compliment on this particular Monday.

The nWo music kicks in, and most of the group enters, with Hulk Hogan and Scott Hall being the only ones I count as missing. They run the WCW announcers off from the announce booth, and Eric Bischoff/Kevin Nash/Ted DiBiase put on the headsets. As Carl Ouellet enters, Nash says, "Doesn't look like he's missed too many Labatt's, huh?" Okay Nash, I hate almost everything you say, but I support taking swipes at Canadian beer.

Carl Ouellet (w/ Col. Parker) vs. Hacksaw Jim Duggan: Eric Bischoff starts booking different matches on the fly, saying that he's taking Psicosis out of a later match and inserting "Masa MY HERO Chono" in his place. Well on top of the obnoxious nickname, that's a terrible wrestling trade, so great job Eric. However, the next announcement is a good one, as he says that he's matching Scott Hall up in his first Nitro match ever against Booker T. Ouellet drops a leg off the second rope, but Duggan kicks out. The Steiner Brothers come out to ringside and randomly attack Jacques Rougeau. Scott Steiner runs blatant interference on Carl Ouellet. Duggan tapes the fist, punches Ouellet, and records the pin. I have zero idea what the justification was for the Steiners to just go launch a full heel attack (while remaining faces) against the Canadians, but there we are.



Result: Hacksaw Jim Duggan via pinfall

The nWo announcers show the footage of Diamond Dallas Page turning on them last week. "Biggest mistake he's ever made in his life," etc.

Squire David Taylor vs. Masa Chono: Taylor is wearing some ridiculous hunting get-up, though he's still using the same Blueblood music that Steven Regal uses. Eric Bischoff dispatches Nick Patrick to go down to referee the match. "All we want is an even playing field." Chono with a cheap shot before the bell as Patrick chuckles. We get some boring back and forth between these boring wrestlers, as Taylor gets a bigger share of offense than you would expect given the match setup. He's still jobbing though of course, as Chono executes an inverted atomic drop, a mafia kick, and then slaps on the STF. Taylor taps out, which wasn't particularly a thing yet in wrestling. Glad that match didn't take too long.

Result: Masa Chono via submission

Booker T (w/ Sister Sherri) vs. Scott Hall: Big face pop for Scott Hall's entrance. Nash: "I haven't seen this many black t-shirts since the 1977 Foghat tour." Kev, don't blow your cover. Remember, you're playing an 18-year-old on a weekly basis. Nick Patrick is still officiating. Hall flicks a toothpick at Booker. Booker slaps Hall in reply. Hall with some hard shoulders, an arm-wringer, and a takeover into an armbar. Scott Hall was so far and away the best thing about the nWo. Booker T gets in an arm-wringer of his own and makes impact with a heel kick. Booker misses an elbow, spinaroonie, Harlem side kick. The crowd loves Hall, but they pop nicely for Booker here too.



After Booker's pin attempt only gets two, he jumps in for an attempted cross-body on Hall, and Hall catches him and performs his patented fallaway slam. Sets Booker up on the top turnbuckle, tries to follow, Booker elbows him off and connects on a cross-body off the top. Nick Patrick counts really slowly, allowing Hall to escape on two. Booker shoves Patrick, Hall attacks from behind, Razor's Edge, 1-2-3. Fun little match.



Result: Scott Hall via pinfall

After the commercials, we hear Harlem Heat's music rev up again, which is just horrible news since it means we're getting Stevie ****ing Ray in a singles match.

Stevie Ray (w/ Sister Sherri) vs. Lex Luger: Luger is facing Scott Hall at Clash of the Champions, per the commentary at the end of Hall's match and during Lex's entrance here. Nick Patrick baits Luger before the bell, and Stevie capitalizes by unloading his entire offensive arsenal (meaning that he punched Luger a few times). Luger fights back, but spills through the ropes to the outside a moment later and gets attacked by Stevie outside. Back inside the ring, Lex counters with a powerslam and slaps on the Torture Rack. The bell rings, Luger confronts Nick Patrick for some reason, making me think momentarily that Patrick had manufactured a disqualification, but Patrick tries raising Luger's hand. Luger rips his hand away and storms off. I don't get it. Stevie Ray bitches at Patrick as well, so I guess maybe Patrick called the match off before Stevie submitted.



Result: Lex Luger via submission

I was hoping for no Hulk Hogan tonight, but he comes out for our final segment. By the way, one thing that would make these Hogan appearances more tolerable? Voodoo Child. But understandably, WWE doesn't pay to have that on the Network, so it's always just the nWo porno music for Hogan's entrances. Anyway, this is a pretty standard obnoxious Hogan promo until The Giant marches out from the back. Security holds Giant back as Hogan calls him a coward.



Giant actually breaks free and is about to enter the ring when the show goes off the air.

Overall: Sullivan-Benoit, Malenko-Dragon, Hall-Booker, and an intriguing Sting/Savage opener…this was a really strong effort as well.

---

Ratings for 1/13/97: Nitro 3.7, Raw 2.2
Ratings Running Score: Nitro 47-17-2

Better Show: This is awfully close to a toss-up, to the point where I'll second-guess whichever one I pick, but I'm going to give the slightest of nods to Raw. More weeks like this please, where I'm deciding which strong show was stronger rather than deciding which show was less awful.
Better Show Running Score: Nitro 50-16

Match of the Night: Kevin Sullivan vs. Chris Benoit
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07-13-2016 , 05:10 AM
RTWM 13 was something else. So much passion from particularly Austin and Bret over the title. I almost feel like I should watch because I'm almost certain that the winner of the 4-way isn't the champion at WM but ofc I could be wrong. It has to be one of the very best and certainly a top 3 since the greatness that was WM 8.

Speaking of Rob Parker. On the Part 2 of Uncensored 1995 TLF, there is a hilarious 10 or so minutes of JP impersonating him and just going off. Quite incredible. That's probably the only redeeming part of either part of that miserable ppv. I don't blame them though when they're in 1995.
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07-13-2016 , 06:27 AM
Not that they would ever air it on the Network anyway, like you said, but they weren't using Voodoo Child yet. That wouldn't happen until Rodman showed up later in the year.
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07-13-2016 , 11:52 PM
Im ahead of you in March already and just before WM. Its interesting they have the iconic Austin's bloody face in the intro of Raw leading up to the WM where it happened, so obv they put that intro there just for the Network as, I'm guessing, the start of the attitude era?
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07-16-2016 , 01:53 PM
WCW CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS XXXIV



Milwaukee, WI

Tony Schiavone, Dusty Rhodes, and Bobby Heenan are our announce team for this show. Dusty is making bold fashion choices as usual.



Cruiserweight Title - Ultimo Dragon (c) (w/ Sonny Onoo) vs. Dean Malenko: Full match writeup here. More greatness from these two, as they both get some believable ending spots in before Malenko, having knocked Sonny Onoo out of the picture when Onoo tried to interfere late, locks in the Texas Cloverleaf and leaves no room for an Ultimo Dragon escape. Tap tap tap, and we have a new Cruiserweight Champion.



Result: Dean Malenko via submission, new Cruiserweight Champion
Rating: ****

Usually the actual commercials get cut out of the broadcasts, but they screw up and show a D3: Mighty Ducks commercial here. That's a nice little sign of the times.

Mike Enos vs. Scotty Riggs: Scotty Riggs, at this point, was pure sadness, clinging to the failed American Males gimmick as the rejected American Male. It's like he was a way worse rendition of post-Rockers Marty Jannetty. He knocks Enos outside and hits a pescado to the floor, but Enos turns the tables with a whip reversal into the apron and a jumping clothesline off the apron. Enos wastes too much time, gets backdropped outside, the action returns inside, and Enos is back after it with a release overhead belly-to-belly. Riggs ducks a clothesline, hits a really weak jumping forearm, and…scores a pin. Match was really short, actually featured some fairly nice spots, and then the dumbest spot of the match ships it.



Result: Scotty Riggs via pinfall
Rating: *1/2, almost too short to rate really

After a commercial break, Mean Gene calls out the Four Horsemen for an interview. No Ric Flair tonight. Chris Benoit says that the Horsemen will dominate in '97. He proceeds to ramble his way awkwardly through an awkward, bad promo that never seems to stop. Every time he paused I thought that Gene would take the mic away, and you can see on Gene's face that he keeps considering it, but he ultimately lets Benoit go on and on. Benoit says that he's going to end Kevin Sullivan's career.



Arn Anderson encourages Benoit and asks him to "finish off the carcass." Mongo McMichael, who gets huge heat despite the group getting a big pop, continues the promo on Sullivan. Benoit, Woman, and Arn leave, but Debra stays behind to take a shot at Woman before the segment wraps.

Konnan, J.L., & La Parka vs. Chris Jericho, Super Calo, & Chavo Guerrero Jr.: Tony notes that Jericho is in for Juventud Guerrera tonight; Guerrera was originally scheduled to be in this one. Match starts on Chavo vs. J.L. They trade fists, Chavo hits a shoulderblock, J.L. leapfrogs him and hits a spinning back elbow. Chavo ducks a clothesline, flying forearm, dropkick, both tag out so that we get Konnan vs. Calo. Couple of armdrags by Konnan, Calo executes one of his own, hits a reverse rana and a front dropkick, and again we get tags on both sides; Jericho vs. La Parka now.

La Parka catches Jericho into a powerslam, throws a chop, but Jericho is back after him with a hard running clothesline. La Parka copies Booker T's spinaroonie to regain his feet, then hits a spinning heel kick. Jericho with a raised boot to catch a corner charge, then a dropkick off the second rope. Konnan comes in, others start to come in as well, and Konnan and La Parka go on to double-team Chavo with a double clothesline followed by a double dropkick that sandwiches him. Konnan sets Chavo up on his shoulders; La Parka comes off with the big moonsault that his Chavo squarely.



Parka and J.L. try to double-team further, but Chavo dodges a double clothesline and hits a cross-body on both men, then capitalizes by tagging Jericho in. Superkick from Jericho on J.L., then a great spinning wheel kick. Flying shoulderblock by Jericho on Konnan, then a quick pescado from there. J.L. is right on top of things though, jumping off the top to the floor on Jericho. Chavo one-ups that by hitting his own pescado on J.L. La Parka with a big suicide dive over the top. Calo dropkicks La Parka through the ropes, then executes on the dangerous-looking slingshot splash from the ring all the way to the floor. As much as that sequence gave off an inorganic and choreographed feel, it was fun.



Back inside, J.L. with a hurracanrana into a pin, but only a two-count. J.L. to the top, Jericho crotches him there, Jericho plays at a superplex and then hits a fantastic super hurracanrana to finish things. Really enjoyable stuff.



Result: Chris Jericho, Super Calo, & Chavo Guerrero Jr. via pinfall
Rating: ***1/2

Harlem Heat (w/ Sister Sherri) vs. Joe Gomez & Renegade: Jobber entrances for these two teams, which is at least appropriate for one of them. Stevie Ray brawls aimlessly with Gomez. Tag to his brother, who comes in and connects on a Harlem side kick. Gomez pulls out a surprise small package that gets a two-count, which is his only flash of success in this match. Moments later, he's getting slapped by Sherri while Stevie holds him up outside the ring. Renegade finally gets his first tag of the match after some extended Heat domination of Gomez, but Renegade quickly falls victim to the Heatseeker missile dropkick off the top to end the contest.



Result: Harlem Heat via pinfall
Rating: N/A, this is just a squash match.

Masa Hiro Chono vs. Alex Wright: Nick Patrick is the official here. He turns his baseball cap backward as the action commences. Wright gets some licks in early and then awkwardly somehow fails on three consecutive attempts to get an nWo t-shirt out of the ring.



Wright with a decent little enziguri followed by the dropkick headscissor and then the standard dropkick. Hits a heel kick a few moments later as well, and Nick Patrick is slow to count the pin. Same for a small package. Schiavone openly concedes that the match is unwinnable whenever Patrick is in, unless you actually incapacitate your opponent to the point that they can't continue. After a sunset flip off the top by Wright where Patrick is even way slower than usual, Wright gets pissed and kicks Patrick. As Patrick is about to signal for the DQ, Chono connects on the mafia kick and Patrick gets down and makes the three-count instead.

Result: Masa Hiro Chono via pinfall
Rating: 3/4*

Scott Norton vs. Eddie Guerrero: Nick Patrick is still in, so the only question here is whether Eddie will eat a pin. You would certainly hope not against Scott Norton. Norton no-sells Eddie's initial attempts at offense, punishes him in the corner, then executes a press slam. Eddie manages to take Norton down with two targeted dropkicks to Norton's leg, then continues the limb work with an elbow and then a slingshot splash onto the leg. Grapevine by Eddie. Tries to follow with chops, but Norton is back on the no-sell. He chops Eddie down. Eddie counters with a dropkick that Norton apparently doesn't feel, then Norton just runs through with the clothesline.



Norton executes half of a delayed suplex…just half of one, because instead of actively going down with Guerrero he just dropped him behind and wished Eddie good luck in landing properly. Think Hogan/Virgil at WrestleMania IV. Norton has a firm advantage after a scoop powerslam, continues the carnage with a hard powerbomb, but just sort of lopes around the ring in slow motion afterward. Eventually climbs the ropes, at which point Eddie scrambles to his feet and throws a dropkick upward at him to sit him down. Couple of European uppercuts and then a hurracanrana off the ropes.

Norton rolls out of the way of a frog splash, Eddie rolls through, Norton clotheslines him as the crowd gets up. Diamond Dallas Page is making his way through the crowd, and as he does so, we get a ref bump that knocks both Guerrero and Nick Patrick out of the ring. DDP jumps into the ring, Diamond Cutter on Norton gets a huge pop, and Page leaves triumphantly back through the crowd.



Frog splash by Eddie, and as slowly as Patrick tries to count, he caves and drops the hand for three.

Result: Eddie Guerrero via pinfall
Rating: *3/4

Pre-taped Giant promo. He talks about how Hogan only ever brought him into the fold because he was the one who Hogan feared most. Not the worst promo; Giant was, at the very least, showing some level of improvement on the stick.

Before I started into the next match…I've been a bit curious as to exactly when the Benoit/Woman angle had started bleeding over into real life. The sister of Woman/Nancy did an interview with Chris Jericho on Jericho's podcast where she shed some light on this, referring to Benoit and Woman taking a "fateful trip to Japan" when things changed, and then said that the Bash at the Beach blowoff match between Sullivan and Benoit came right after that. I can't readily pin down exactly which trip to Japan this was, but my best guess is that it was actually a show in April a few months before that Bash at the Beach. Anyway, all of that is to say that up to this point, the Benoit/Woman affair may have still largely been a work.

Falls Count Anywhere - The Taskmaster (w/ Jimmy Hart) vs. Chris Benoit (w/ Woman): Sullivan bails when Benoit gets into the ring, but with the purpose of summoning Benoit to come outside to fight through the crowd again. Benoit obliges; he goes outside, they trade some punches, and the two head off into their natural habitat. I can't say that I really understand why they feel the need to do this in every Sullivan-Benoit match, but whatever. Back into the bathroom we go. Sullivan slams Benoit into multiple appliances, then slams him into a stall. After some stiff brawling, Sullivan puts Benoit down with a chop and attempts a pin. No good, of course. These bumps in the bathroom seem pretty good, though they're not exactly gifworthy because the sound goes a long way.

They fight back out into the concourse, into the crowd, and Sullivan flings Benoit down the steps pretty hard. I notice that one of the security dudes directing traffic through the crowd is Bobby Eaton; I wonder if he's finally done wrestling now. The match gets back into the ring, and the Taskmaster sets Benoit up in the tree of woe. Running knee. Double stomp. Benoit kicks out. Schiavone feigns shock that someone could kick out of the dumbest finisher in wrestling. Woman slips a wooden chair into the ring, then actually uses it to waffle Sullivan herself. Benoit falls on top, 1-2-3. Somewhat entertaining, but their match on Nitro the night before was easily better.



Result: Chris Benoit via pinfall
Rating: **3/4

Benoit isn't done with this. He goes under the ring, pulls out another wooden chair, and breaks it over Sullivan. He triumphantly holds up the four fingers and leaves.

The Amazing French Canadians (w/ Col. Parker) vs. The Steiner Brothers: This is billed as Scott Steiner's first match back from injury. The Outsiders show up on the big screen during the Steiners' entrance in order to taunt them a bit. Kevin Nash threatens that he might come out and take them out tonight. Based on his attire tonight, Scott Steiner has apparently put in for membership to become Pitbull #3. The Steiners clear the Canadians out of the ring right away. The Canadians bait them into a chase, then attack the Steiners upon re-entry into the ring. Rick Steiner does come back with a cross-body for a two-count as the show goes to break.

Back from break, the Canadians have taken control and have Rick Steiner isolated as the face in peril. Carl Ouellet misses on the top-rope cannonball. Rick Steiner hits a double clothesline a moment later and successfully hot tags to Scott. Scott press-slams Rougeau into Ouellet. Overhead belly-to-belly by Scott on Ouellet. Rougeau tries to hammer him with the flag, but Steiner ducks and dumps Rougeau. Scott with a slow-moving DDT off the top, and the Steiners ship it. These two teams didn't click very well and didn't get much time.



Result: Steiner Brothers via pinfall
Rating: *

Oddly, before the next match Tony Schiavone wishes a happy birthday to longtime WCW fan and supporter Brian Hildebrand. I say "oddly" because Brian Hildebrand is Mark Curtis, that little referee who officiated the earlier Malenko-Ultimo match. Why the heck is he referring to him by his real name and just calling him a "fan and supporter" when he's clearly on the roster as referee Mark Curtis on this very day? I know that's his actual history, that he was a superfan that worked his way into the business and became a referee, but still.

Scott Hall (w/ Kevin Nash & Syxx) vs. Lex Luger: Actually Mark Curtis is officiating this very match, which I suppose is what prompted Tony to say what he did. They always acknowledged officials by name on WCW, so that wasn't a result of a weird McMahonesque order not to say officials' names. Meh; whatever. Hall flicks a toothpick into Luger's face. Luger powers Hall back into a corner once, then powers him down to the mat. Back suplex by Hall, but Luger no-sells and screams as he flexes in Hall's face. Hall raises a boot on a corner charge and hits a follow-up bulldog off the second rope that gets an early near-fall.

Hall with an armbar, then a series of shoulder thrusts into Luger. Luger back at him with a short clothesline. Hall with a chokeslam. Luger dodges an elbow and fires in some punches, but Hall pulls him all the way out of the ring by the tights. As Mark "don't call me Brian Hildebrand" Curtis is distracted, Nash obliterates Luger with a clothesline outside. After a countout tease, Lex manages to beat the count, but he's vulnerable. Hall throws those beautiful and highly believable punches in the corner. Nash runs distraction while Syxx clotheslines Luger along the apron. This interference continues, as Nash clocks Lex from outside a moment later as well. Mark Curtis accuses Nash of doing this, and Nash denies in an over-the-top obnoxious way.



It's such a ****ing indictment of humanity that Nash was seen so widely as the "cool heel." Hall with a fallaway slam and a quick cover…two. Into an abdominal stretch next, with Hall getting leverage from Syxx outside the ring. Crutis catches Hall grabbing the ropes eventually, and breaks the hold. Tornado punch by Hall. Luger reverses a corner whip, then slips outside and drags Hall crotch-first into the post. Luger with sort of a slingshot kick on his way back in. Lex with an atomic drop, then three inverted atomic drops and a running clothesline. He teases the Torture Rack, but then seems to drop the idea. Hall pokes him in the eyes. Luger counters with a scoop powerslam a moment later. He signals for the rack, Nash and Syxx start to try to run interference, but Luger knocks Nash down and then press-slams Syxx all the way from the ring down into Nash on the floor.



Gets Hall up in the Torture Rack, but Nash is back in. Again Lex fights him off, as he continues to fight off the whole group. Finally Syxx gets back into the act with a kick off the top, and Mark Curtis signals for the DQ.

Result: Lex Luger via DQ
Rating: **

The nWo continues the 3-on-1 assault until the Steiners run in. The faces eventually get the better of this fight, and then continually hold the nWo off as this Clash goes off the air.

Overall: Mostly was just a hype show for the coming nWo PPV, but I'll still give a thumbs up to a two-hour show (90 minutes with commercials taken out) that provides two matches 3.5 stars or better.
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07-16-2016 , 02:19 PM
I watched the first 10 minutes of Souled Out, and...yeah, that one might take a while to power through.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-17-2016 , 04:15 AM
I just tried to watch the April 14, 1997 edition of Raw is War and holy **** what a horrendous show.

I don't have the Network, so I'm watching this online. I don't remember what WCW was doing at this point, but it can't be worse than this Jesse James vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley match I just watched.
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07-17-2016 , 05:17 AM
This Souled Out show is one of the most hilariously awful wrestling shows in history. It should have been clear even on paper that this wasn't going to work; a great counterexample to "How can we know it won't work unless we try it?"
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07-17-2016 , 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan E08
I just tried to watch the April 14, 1997 edition of Raw is War and holy **** what a horrendous show.

I don't have the Network, so I'm watching this online. I don't remember what WCW was doing at this point, but it can't be worse than this Jesse James vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley match I just watched.
Must have been the South Africa show. Yeah, that was pretty terrible. Picked up just a wee bit the following week, though.
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07-17-2016 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorobot
This Souled Out show is one of the most hilariously awful wrestling shows in history. It should have been clear even on paper that this wasn't going to work; a great counterexample to "How can we know it won't work unless we try it?"
And then it kept happening. WW3 was proof enough that WCW wasn't about learning from its mistakes.

I'm trying to puzzle out exactly why I never saw this one at the time, because I got basically every show of every company back then on my parents' dime, but I never saw this one and I'm pretty sure I never saw any Souled Out. I think I was just a big enough hater of the concept of this show, and most of the nWo in general, that it never piqued my curiosity to see it. If that's actually why I missed it then that's really saying something, since it was free to me and I obsessively wanted to see every show. I kept watching the WW3 shows as they happened.
Monday Night Wars - The Comprehensive Recap Quote
07-17-2016 , 11:15 AM
The future Souled Out PPVs I don't think followed this same concept though; they weren't meant to be specifically NWO PPVs with only NWO vs WCW matches and all the weird stuff they did for the first one.

WCW in general seemed to drastically overrate gimmick PPVs though. And they should have changed the name of the January PPV to disassociate it further from the stench of the First Souled Out.
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07-17-2016 , 11:46 AM
I think my best hope is to hammer through this show one match per sitting...though I do see that Meltzer actually gave at least four stars to Eddie vs. Syxx, so maybe that part could be decent. Given the scathing reviews here though, I'm expecting that match to be one of those where non-technical factors destroy it and Meltzer just gives his figure-skating ratings to it.
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07-17-2016 , 11:55 AM
My guess is that it doesn't hold up very well like other 90s ladder matches because the stuff that was novel at the time has been done a million times since and even surpassed. Though just writing this has made me want to see Eddie beat Waltman in any match.
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07-17-2016 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorobot
My guess is that it doesn't hold up very well like other 90s ladder matches because the stuff that was novel at the time has been done a million times since and even surpassed.
Yep.
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07-17-2016 , 02:23 PM
Just a continued credit to that first HBK-Razor match for holding up as well as it does despite not having the same acrobatics that are routine today. While there are plenty I haven't seen, I don't know of a ladder match that is as organic and psychologically sound as that one.
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07-17-2016 , 02:41 PM
TLC II? It's just a glorified ladder match afaic. To a lessor extent, TLC III
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07-17-2016 , 02:46 PM
I remember TLC II as having amazing spots but being decidedly non-organic and not psychologically sound, at least as I define it. I love it anyway since I definitely get enjoyment out of an elite spotfest. But what I love about HBK-Razor is that they tell a story of two guys whose clear primary goal is to get that belt. Very little of what they do in that match runs counter to that goal.

Jeff Hardy's reaction to a fallen opponent well outside of the ring isn't to capitalize and go grab the belts so that he can be a champion; it's to follow the opponent out, set up a tall ladder outside, and do a sick stunt to put on a great show.
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07-17-2016 , 03:41 PM
I guess I'll concede there. I think it's a great storyline arc throughout the match with the run-ins so not really match psychology.
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07-17-2016 , 04:17 PM
Here's from the last time I watched HBK-Razor (from the Meltzer thread):

Quote:
It's obviously a great match. The first time I watched it, I thought it was one of the best I'd ever seen (after thinking the same about Bret vs. Owen earlier in the show). Years later, I watched it and think that it doesn't hold up that well. The last time I watched it I thought, "WTF, yes it does, it's still probably a five-star match."

This viewing, I probably see enough to criticize that I can't say that I view it as a five-star match. I think part of the argument a person would make for it being five stars is based on historical impact, since it was an IMPORTANT match on top of being a great one. But just viewing it in a vacuum now? Very, very enjoyable, but not without its flaws. The spots get a bit repetitive late, and thanks to future evolutions of ladder matches, the ladder spots don't shine as much as they once did. To hedge back on that a bit, this match was mostly very sound psychologically in terms of wrestlers mostly fixating on doing things to actually try to win the damn title, rather than just setting up spot after spot like a stunt show.

At the end of my rambling, my rating is: ****1/4
And TLC II (from the WrestleMania recaps thread):

Quote:
Gravity of the match gets put over brilliantly during the entrances, by JR and honestly by the facial expressions of the competitors themselves, particularly Edge and Christian…though that's probably just a legitimate reflection of how much they were worrying about what they had to go do. This match is obviously a truly legendary spotfest, possibly the best spotfest in American wrestling history. I do get the gripes about how attempting huge spots is counterproductive to the point of the match (winning the titles), but honestly I can individually justify a number of the big risks. Heyman tipped me off on one talking about Jeff Hardy sacrificing himself to take out Spike Dudley and Rhyno, and thus leaving it up to Matt to go get the belts. I mean it's an absolute joy to watch, so whatever…I'll suspend disbelief however I have to. Great stuff. ****1/2
I had also given HBK-Razor a full five stars in the recaps thread, so the more recent viewing dropped it below, and who knows what I'll say on my next viewing of TLC II whenever it happens. Think it's an open question from one week to the next as to which one I regard as the actual better match because they're great for very different reasons.
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