So I took at shot at the 100/200 HORSE game and this hand boggled me. 1.) I played it terrible and crazy donkish 2.) I think the villan played it worse!

You decide.

HORSE - Razz ($100/$200), Ante $20, Bring-In $30 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 6___folds
Hero: 7 Q 3___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 9___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 7___raises___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 3___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 5___folds

4th Street - (5.70 SB)

Hero: 7 Q 3 A___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 7 A___calls

5th Street - (3.85 BB)

Hero: 7 Q 3 A 5___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 7 A 2___calls

6th Street - (5.85 BB)

Hero: 7 Q 3 A 5 9___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 7 A 2 Q___calls

River - (7.85 BB)

Hero: 7 Q 3 A 5 9 8___bets
Seat 6: xx xx 7 A 2 Q xx___calls

Total pot: (9.85 BB)

Results (in white):[color:white]

Total pot $1970 | Rake $3

Hero: [7h Qh 3s As 5c 9h 8h] (Lo: 8,7,5,3,A)

Seat 6: [8s 6h 7c Ad 2h Qs Tc]

[/color]

Other than villain even being in the hand in the first place, he played it fine, and better than you because you had the same problem he did, playing it on third, therefore and henceforth and furthermore, that makes you the bigger donk!

My thought on the hand is for you to call third if you insist on getting involved. Smaller pot ties him less to it imo, which you want him tied less too, when you have a Queen in the hole.

Of course, the stakes are a bit above my pay grade, so grain of salt; but that's my general idea in this spot, would like to hear what others say on that.

You should learn to play all the games before playing 100/200. You obviously don't know how to play razz.

Very easy fold on 3rd. WTF is the raise?

I don't like villain's complete UTG with that hand and door card. Don't know if his calldown is bad. The ace looks likely to have paired you.

In answer to your question, your play is much more donkish.

I think your 3rd st play is awful and your 4th st play is questionable. 5th I keep going back and forth on. He might fold if he has paired, but maybe not. 6th, he is never folding. Unfortunately you have to act first. Checking is pretty weak there. I don't know the right action for 6th, but here are some thoughts:
* If you check 6th, whether he bets or not, he will be more likely to look you up on 7th. If you plan to bluff, this is bad, if you plan to value bet, this is good.
* If you check 6th, he'll bet a good amount of the time, with any low that beats a 9, and he'll probably bluff some with a drawing hand, to see if he can get you to fold. I wouldn't expect a bluff that often though, he really can't expect you to fold, for the same reason that you can't really expect him to fold.
* I think he's never folding 6th. So if you bet, you definitely are charging yourself 1bb, if you check, you may get to see a free 7th.

I think villain's 3rd st play is kind of bleh, and from there on out, I think he did fine.

Statistically by 5th you'll have paired a LOT and his 876 is good. 6th doesn't help you, so if he was ahead on 5th, he's aheada on 6th. 7th he pretty much has to call. Raising is not going to do him much good because much of the time you'll at least be drawing to beat a 7, so you won't fold, and when you can already beat a 7, you'll raise.

If the villain had any inkling you were capable of being this donkish, then telling yourself he played it even worse is just whistling past the graveyard. Against a laggy donk, I can only fault him for his initial completion.

You are. Fold 3rd.

Third is a really easy fold. The rest I can't really say. I wouldn't be in a pot this big with a Queen in the hole, like, ever.

Third is crazy, like burning money unless you know this guy is a fruitcake.

Once he flats Third and you both catch Aces on Fourth, you should know you have no hope of getting him to fold. Think about those two streets for a second.

So, plan B is to keep firing until you outrun him. I don't see what the problem is. It's a plan.

Can OP explain the rationale behind 3rd? Are you hoping to get him to fold eventually with your superior door card? You are lucky he had 867. He is representing a smooth 7.

This is like reraising an early position raiser in holdem with K3s or in 0/8 with A499, in Stud or Stud8 with (T4)A,r.

I am not sure I like 4th and 5th. I would certainly fire if he caught bad and you caught good.

As played, I was check 4th. Villain will probably be suspicious and check behind. If he bets, fold. Same with 5th. Cut your losses.

The raise is much worse than flat calling 3rd, as you commit yourself more. Flat calling is a relatively small mistake if you fold when things don't go absolutely right.

I think this thread is a level ... nothing here makes sense.

If you're gonna play this hand, you get 2.5:1 to outflop him if you flat vs 3.5:2, at best, if you raise.

I think OP was the donk completing with a rough 8 not the donk raising with a Q.

hmmm, possible plot twist. I like it! Either way I may have to start hit and running the razz orbits of these games.

I guess I should explain a little rationale.

I played this hand for two reasons. 1.) to show I was willing to gamble to the table, if either won or lost 2.) completing under the gun with a 7 with 5 lower doors is kinda frisky. I also had a read that he was more loose passive player (atleast in razz)

So by raising 3rd instead of calling I was telling him I have a better hand to your 7 and unless you catch and I dont. Now the A on 4th may look like I paired but a big reason for raising 3rd here would be to dictate most my cards were live, ie had a 5 6 or similar in hole. (If I had A23 I would probably smooth call) I bet 5th thinking that it may appear I have paired but given there are no dead 2's very likely he did also. So I bet...

On 6th I think I should have checked because if he did pair 5th I am winning but if he didn't at this point I am behind and should not fire?

Thanks for the imput. There is a reason for the madness, and is affective to the observent players.

If player think this is always how I play then I will get called down much more frequently and paid off for my advertising for the remainder of the session and future sessions to come.

I can think of better ways to invest $200.

Lol. Guess the people is this forum just don't understand 100/200 play.

In razz, you just don't play junk hands in this situation. This hand is OK to steal raise with and maybe open limp or limp behind. But in any of those cases, you have to be very careful if you get action.

Basically, the only reason to play junk is to steal the antes or if others have shown massive weakness.

You don't play bad hands hoping to steal on later street, like you might in NLHE or stud/stud8 with a good door cards.

Even in stud/stud8, I am not going to raise a complete with an ace door card and junk.

If you wanted to get action by showing you are a loose donk, this may work.

I would only understand 3rd street if a Q brought it in and a 6 raised in front of QQ77 before you, and I'm sure you'd still get berated for it.

If this is FTP your cards are rearranged and someone will not know if you show down this hand whether or not you caught the queen on the river. No use for meta game when your cards are shuffled. If this was stars, I could maybe see doing it.

It was stars.

I must admit that I have on very rare occasion made similarly completely donkish late position reraises, but for an entirely different reason - I hadn't realised that the UG player had even entered the pot and thought I was in a standard steal position. (That's what comes of playing thousands and thousands of flop hands with two blinds - your mind develops a fixed mental 'stealing' picture that does not apply to stud.)

If the OP wasn't so convinced that his play can be justified, I would have imagined that this was what happened here. And in that case, making a play like this to 'advertise' that you are a loose player might be ineffective - your opponents will just think you 'misclicked' on 3rd and then got stubborn.

I don't think most people were advocating that you call 3rd instead. If you want to make an "image play" there are plenty of other opportunities to do so. There are quite a few plays in razz that would look donkish to the average or "conventional wisdom" type player, but are in fact break even or +EV plays. You just have to know where to find them.