i'd like to know what people do on 3rd with 3 low cards as 346.
jamming 3rd seemed to do fine at the lower levels, i think because people are generally pretty bad and you are ahead most of the time anyway.
now i'm not so sure anymore.

i made a little PRO-CON list and i'd like to here other people's opinion on this. (with some of these things i wasn't quite sure where to put them..)

PRO Limping:
-more people in the hand (which should be a good thing if i have sth. like 3s4s6s, no?)
-i didn't invest alot of money in the hand if i brick 4th and have to fold
-since this is a drawing hand, keep the pot small(?)

PRO Completing:
-it disguises your hand a little bit more because they might put you on a high pair
-i make the bring in pay to play (or fold)
-in the scenario that no one raised, the bring in catches another baby(and bets it) and i brick i will have to fold (and i will fold only because i am scared, although he could very well have (K8)23)
sidequestion: do people that brought in make that kind of play(bet two open babies) with **** hands?

the *i_did_not_know_if_this_belongs_to_con_or_pro* category:
-i might scare off mediocre hands like JJx because they put me on a big pair


i have pretty much the same questions for (A2)6 and (62)A. i'd imagine that a raise with the latter hand kills alot of action (again, is this good or bad?)

it would be nice if people would answer with what they do and *why* they do it, the limits they do this at and the % of players that usually see 4th at these tables

Hmmm ...

the only time I won't complete is if I have a hand like AcTc9c, which looks really weak and needs to hit 4th really hard and likes a few more people in the pot - that's pretty much the only exception - and that's a really poor hand compared to 345 rainbow.

Any other time I have a hand to play I complete almost without exception.

Why? Well, If you can win the antes right there - perfect. Secondly, If you thin the field and increase your chances of winning the antes, perfect. Thirdly, If you get more money in the pot when you have the best hand, perfect.

Remember, it's all a battle for the antes - and in limit poker you almost never slowplay, win the pot straight away or get money in when you have the best of it.

I know where you're coming from, it's sick to have to fold 4th a lot but that's the nature of stud8.

Yes. If the board looks strong , they will bluff and rightly so - depends on the players. Don't get caught doing it.

would you also complete (2s3s)As then?
that just doesn't seem like a hand you "only" want to win the ante's with

No - the hand I had above had no low draw - THAT ONE ... A23sss I definitely complete. (or maybe limp IF i know for sure it's gonna be completed -- then I'll jam it)

The most important concept in Stud8 is the ability to scoop the pot.

In your OP the example was 346 and the question was to limp or complete. As always in poker the answer is "it depends".

First question would be: how live are the 5s? If there are 5s on board then your ability to catch a straight and scoop are diminished. Try running a few simulations and you will see the effect that card removal has on your equity.

Second question: Suited? Three suited babies and I'm not going away unless I catch real bad over the next few streets.

Third question: How live are the As, 2s, 7s and 8s? If you are going for low then you need to catch two more low cards. Again run some simulations. If the 5s are live then the liveness (is that really a word?) of the 7s and 2s will impact your ability to scoop. West has a point system that he uses for estimating how live a straight draw is.

Fourth question: What hands do you think your opponents have? Do they appear to be going high or low? Could you get caught in the middle if your opponents start to jam and you catch a brick? Based on your reads of the players (this is one aspect of poker that always gets short shrift) a. will a raise on 3rd get them to fold? b. will they fold if they brick on 4th?

These are a few of the questions that you have to answer before getting involved in each hand.

Meh , when I replied to this earlier I misread it and now I can't edit that post so here's may answer:

with A23sss , you'd be happy to win the antes straight away - it's a good hand, not a monster, but if you have to fight to win the antes then it's a good one to have.

I think the only hands that you REALLY want action on every street would be

1) where you have a solid low draw and multi-way high action.

2) Full house with multi-way low draws (i.e. starting with rolled trips)


Unless you are far ahead of the other players and can get extra value from then on every street, in nearly every case you just want the antes.


I'd be interested to hear what others think - but that's my view.

It is now !

With hands like these, I like to put in a certain amount of action on third street, but not too much. If it's jammed, I'm sometimes going to find myself in an uncomfortable position if I haven't improved by fifth street. If it goes one or two bets, then we're starting to build a nice little pot that I'm getting my fair share of, but it isn't so bloated that I feel tied on if I catch a couple of bananas. If it's limped, then the pot is small enough that my opponents may not make mistakes on later streets. Now if in your game, people are taking cards off on fourth when they catch bananas in tiny pots, keeping the pot small doesn't look so bad.

So I will probably limp with these hands early, but if I'm in late position after several limpers, I might raise. This depends on just how live my hand is, my mood, my image, the texture of the game, how long it's been since my last trip to the ATM, etc.

Since you asked, I mostly play live, so I can't cite exact fourth street percentages. Lately it's mostly $6/12 with a little $10/20, but I have played a lot of $30/60 and a little $40/80. These games are significantly looser than what I've found online $2/4 through $10/20, and usually more aggressive--much more aggressive at $30/60 and up.

From PokerStove:
The table above contains all 1755 canonical third street stud hands. This list was generated by peforming all-in third streed equity calculations with Monte Carlo sims of 10,000 runs.

The equities are listed in descending order, and are computed using seven total players, that is the hero plus six opponents.

hand pot equity
----------------:---------------
Ac Ad Ah : 0.484
8c 8d 8h : 0.445
7c 7d 7h : 0.436
6c 6d 6h : 0.428
5c 5d 5h : 0.418
4c 4d 4h : 0.403
Kc Kd Kh : 0.401
Qc Qd Qh : 0.397
Jc Jd Jh : 0.395
2c 2d 2h : 0.393
Tc Td Th : 0.392
3c 3d 3h : 0.389
9c 9d 9h : 0.384
Ac 4c 3c : 0.340
Ac 4c 2c : 0.336
Ac 5c 3c : 0.335
Ac 3c 2c : 0.335



It's a pretty big hand. 4th after the rolled up hands. You should complete/raise and bring-in/3-bet with such a hand unless it's dead.

This rarely happens. If it does it's a good player who wouldnt give you action anyway. Watch the 5/1k HORSE game on FTP, you see split Jacks holding on. Hold'em donks have no idea what to do with such a hand. They just cant fold it so play play all weird with it and lost.