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Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in?

02-06-2009 , 08:18 PM
Tournament - 7 Card Stud High-Low (3/6), Ante 0.50, Bring-In 1 (converter)

Seat 1: 49.50
Seat 2: 212.50
Seat 3: 86.50
Seat 4: 46.50
Seat 5: 120
Seat 6: 68.50
Hero: 293

3rd Street - (1.17 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 9___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 2___brings-in___calls
Seat 4: xx xx Q___folds
Seat 5: xx xx T___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K___completes
Hero: 3 A 7___calls

4th Street - (5.17 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 9 5___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 2 J___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K 5___bets___calls
Hero: 3 A 7 6___raises

5th Street - (4.58 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx K 5 4___bets
Hero: 3 A 7 6 9___calls

6th Street - (6.58 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx K 5 4 3___checks
Hero: 3 A 7 6 9 7___checks

River - (6.58 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx K 5 4 3 xx___calls
Hero: 3 A 7 6 9 7 3___bets

Total pot: (8.58 BB - 51.50)

---

Do you isolate raise 4th street (3rd street?) or prefer to keep everyone in? What about river - clear valuebet?

Thanks!
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-06-2009 , 09:17 PM
Is this a tournament or cash game?

I would call 4th. The only other low caught bad and should fold anyway. Your hand does have a lot of two way value, and if you think Seat 6 just has a pair of kings, then your chances of scooping go way up if you can get it HU. A lot of your straight and flush outs are gone though, so you're probably just going to end up with a low more often than not.

An argument for raising 4th could be made so as to increase fold equity, but any scare cards you could catch would probably improve your hand to the point that you want callers.

River is a clear bet/fold, I think. Bet to get value from UI kings, knowing that he prolly can't raise you without a monster. A lot of this depends on the player, though; if he's bad enough to bet naked kings into a 76 suited on 4th, then bet away, but a lot of players won't bet there with less than 2 pair.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-06-2009 , 09:21 PM
It`s a cash game.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-06-2009 , 10:32 PM
I like to raise here. I would call if you had 4 hearts. Your hand wants to get HU here w/out the flush draw.

-ChipsAhoya
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-07-2009 , 12:25 PM
I'd probably raise 3rd, since you've only got 2 low cards behind you (one is the bring in, one is an 8), and your ace is totally live. You'd like to be able to win the pot with a single pair of aces, or two small pair.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-07-2009 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by c9h13no3
I'd probably raise 3rd, since you've only got 2 low cards behind you (one is the bring in, one is an 8), and your ace is totally live. You'd like to be able to win the pot with a single pair of aces, or two small pair.
I used to think like that, and I still think it's a good idea to mix up your play by doing this ocassionally(i would lean towards doing this when I had a buried 8).

Most players at this level can never be outplayed with a big pair. So you're doing the cowboys a favorite by getting heads up - he is the money favorite HU in the long run. Your hand has two way potential - you can make aces or a low draw, either of which can make money multi-way -his hand would never want multi-way. So play to the strength of your hand.

I think the poster is asking about 4th st. - you'd really like the 9 to stick around and the low to pass with your 76 mediocre draw. I'd lean toward raising unless i knew the players well enough that calling would induce the ideal scenario.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-07-2009 , 02:49 PM
Actually I asked about both 3rd and 4th street...and river

As I see from the answers, it looks to be very close decision early streets. But what about river bet? I think I made mistake by betting, cause actually it`s not that easy to take bet/fold line. If villain had K6, AK in the hole, he possibly made backdoor 6-low, which he knows is good.

In real hand he actually had kings up.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-07-2009 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by getfunky
Most players at this level can never be outplayed with a big pair. So you're doing the cowboys a favorite by getting heads up - he is the money favorite HU in the long run.
Most of our draws to high hands are two small pair or a pair of aces right? And our low draw is to a seven.

I just believe that we increase the likelyhood that we scoop, or our low is good if we go ahead & raise 3rd. Sure, we give up a small edge to the kings when we do this, but the edge is very slight (unless he has KK_K or AA_K). Against KJK, our hand is pretty much even money. Additionally, it does awesome things for our table image when we raise more often. Not to mention that its just so much easier to play hands in heads up pots IMO.

I'd lean more towards calling with a hand like A25 or maybe A65 if hearts were more live than they are now. With those two hands, we can make dominating low draws, or hands that will take the high in a 3-4 way pot. But as is with the hand we're dealt, we're just not going to make a ton of high hands that play well in a 3-4 way pot.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-07-2009 , 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eStone
what about river bet? I think I made mistake by betting, cause actually it`s not that easy to take bet/fold line. If villain had K6, AK in the hole, he possibly made backdoor 6-low, which he knows is good.
.
I agree - it's a tricky river and he could make a nice value raise with kings and a lucky board lock low. Out of position sucks, period!

The question is whether you lose money or make money in the long run with a bet - i dunno - others?
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-08-2009 , 03:00 PM
I flat-call on third as well. I can go either way on fourth. Getting it heads-up with a few bets in there is a good situation. The other guy's board is a little too scary for me to want to value-bet Sevens-up on the river.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote
02-08-2009 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsAhoya
I like to raise here. I would call if you had 4 hearts. Your hand wants to get HU here w/out the flush draw.

-ChipsAhoya
This is a very good point.

The other thing I'd add is that if you'd paired the 6 you'd like to raise also.
Stud8 - to isolate or keep them in? Quote

      
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