Stud 8: Queens vs. Bring-in/Ace on 4th - Stud Poker

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Other Poker Games Stud

Stud 8: Queens vs. Bring-in/Ace on 4th

Post Reply Subscribe

...

05-13-2016 , 11:23 AM

NedSchneebly

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 310

Full ring game

There is a bring-in and everyone folds to me. I complete (Q5)Q, Villain calls (xx)2 out of the bring-in. My reads on Villain is that he is a solid player but not an expert at Stud8.

4th:
Me: (Q5)Q6
Villain : (xx)2A

Villiain bets, I call

5th:
Me: (Q5)Q67
Villain: (xx)2A8

Villain bets, I Fold

My question is can I fold 4th? To me, folding 4th feels a little nitty.

Now on 5th, I debated a call but it that felt spewy. Does my potential low draw/straight draw have enough equity to call 5th as opposed to a hand like (Q5)Q6J?

Quote

05-14-2016 , 12:02 AM

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

A nice illustration of what can happen w/ big pairs in Stud/8, iyam, although ofc I'm raising the Queens also v. the bring-in. I think the call on 4th is ok. I wouldn't fold 5th, you have enough to see another card assuming the cards you need are live. I would snap fold w/ that Jack you used for illustrative purposes.

Quote

05-16-2016 , 03:06 PM

Jeffage

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 8,589

4th street is an immediate fold. He can easily have made aces if he started with three low cards. If not he likely has a premium low draw and the pot is small. He will also have a playing advantage throuhout as he knows exactly what you have and you dont know what he has. If you always fold in spots like this on fourth you will do much much better in your plaing career.

Quote

05-16-2016 , 05:10 PM

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

That's too tight even for me and I'm on the nitty side but I also won't put up much in the way of a defense either.

Quote

05-17-2016 , 04:41 AM

ToninhoBet

newbie

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 16

i call 5th

Quote

05-17-2016 , 12:38 PM

ninefingershuffle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,816

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffage

Quote

05-17-2016 , 04:59 PM

Joe Tall

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,928

Fold 4th, you are losing half the pot 45% of the time and the whole pot 30ish%. Basically if he doesnt have a 4 low, he has a pair w/3 low and obv you are toast if that pair is the Ace.

Quote

05-19-2016 , 09:17 AM

skoldpadda

old hand

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,690

I think folding 4th is one of the things good tight players do here. Continuing vs a solid player is definitely very low EV. Now if he were a spewpot, I'd probably continue. But I like to live dangerously. Given your read though, I think this is a sensible fold.

Quote

05-19-2016 , 09:18 PM

tiger415

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,264

I think 4th is between a call and a marginal fold.

if villain plays any 2 babies then I call on 4th ainec
if villain plays only non-razz hands then I fold on 4th and its close

5th is between a marginal call and a toss.

Quote

05-24-2016 , 10:06 PM

#10

BOUCHARD

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 17

Call me crazy, but I will raise on 4th more than I will fold. His reaction will tell me everything and I may get a free card out of it.

Quote

05-25-2016 , 08:31 AM

#11

St.Boston

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 159

One of the only situations in which I will call a raise if I am the forced bring in here in Stud8 against an obvious high pair is 3 cards to a low w/ an Ace!!!! And if the roles were reversed once the low catches an Ace on 4th then bets out, its a guessing game to me as to where they stand. Do they have an Ace under or do they have 4 low cards, but if it is a solid player I know they have an ace under so I just muck my hand. I hate hi pairs in stud 8, I usually just throw them away, or limp and try to make trips on the turn.

Quote

05-25-2016 , 05:47 PM

#12

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

I finally got around to doing a few sims and between that and Joe Tall's post folding 4th is the right play.

Quote

05-25-2016 , 07:02 PM

#13

BOUCHARD

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 17

You can throw the simulations out the window. There is no "right" answer. Folding is a weak play and I would still rather raise. So much can happen on 5th and 6th that can allow you to take away the pot. Plus, you have to take into account the player. The concept of a "solid" player can mean many things. Playing Stud8 mainly using percentages is not the way to go, but I love to play against that type of theory.

Quote

05-25-2016 , 08:15 PM

#14

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Qc Qd 6h 5s	27.15%	110,839	190,480	10	30,033	21
Ah As 8c 7h	72.85%	384,977	409,510	10	180,758	21

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
Qc Qd 6h 5s	50.98%	131,165	472,867	12	25,246	42
As 8c 7h 2c	49.02%	119,378	127,121	12	401,495	42

One is horrible, one is meh. Pot's small, I was wrong. I'm folding that spot from now on.

Quote

05-26-2016 , 01:16 PM

#15

BOUCHARD

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 17

This is why I love 7stud8!!!!!

Quote

05-26-2016 , 02:53 PM

#16

beset

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,107

This thread made me smile, as I just had a spirited debate with a friend about playing split queens in Stud8. I've started being very nitty with starters like this and believe a fold on 4th street in this spot is technically correct. I don't always do it in practice, however.

Quote

05-26-2016 , 03:36 PM

#17

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by beset

I don't always do it in practice, however.

A common failing.

Quote

05-26-2016 , 04:43 PM

#18

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,946

4th sets up the rest of the hand here and that rest of the hand leaves you out in left field with all the worst of the guessing. and also folding a possible winner later on if you happened to be right on 4th.
those that cant fold here and especially on 5th , think about your future at mcdonalds. although they may be going to 15 an hour in a few years.

Quote

05-26-2016 , 05:49 PM

#19

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Starbucks, tho.

Quote

05-26-2016 , 10:40 PM

#20

BOUCHARD

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 17

I raise on 4th most of the time... and have no need to ever think of McDonald's. Many ways to make $$$. Aggression wins... the higher the level the better it works

I certainly hope to see you at my tables this summer with that tight approach, I need that winter beach home..

Quote

05-26-2016 , 10:56 PM

#21

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

There's a lot to be said for a positive attitude, I'll give you that much.

But your strat is still bad bec you should be aiming for a summer beach home, imo.

Quote

05-26-2016 , 11:37 PM

#22

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,946

you are right about aggression wins. but must be used properly or its a big leak.

and i do have a beach house, mountain home, lake house, river house all free and clear. so maybe folding a little more does pay off.

Quote

05-28-2016 , 08:30 AM

#23

RichGangi

Laughable false & highly douchey

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 9,569

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Zee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Zee

RZ

Bouchard, you make money playing Stud8? Serious question.

Quote

05-28-2016 , 08:27 PM

#24

BOUCHARD

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 17

Yes, but never get to play enough. Done very well...

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...