HORSE - Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 6___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 6___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 5___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8___folds
Seat 5: xx xx T___brings-in___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 8___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 4___folds
Hero: 4 3 2___raises

4th Street - (4.30 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6 3___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8 5___folds
Hero: 4 3 2 A___bets

5th Street - (3.15 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6 3 Q___checks___calls
Hero: 4 3 2 A K___bets

6th Street - (5.15 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6 3 Q 2___bets
Hero: 4 3 2 A K T___calls

River - (7.15 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 6 3 Q 2 xx___bets
Hero: 4 3 2 A K T J___calls

Total pot: (9.15 BB)

I've been playing pretty much exclusively HORSE tables for the past couple weeks on Stars. On thing that is becoming apparent in razz is that players at this level like to just be when they have the board regardless of hole cards or opponents board. Players also definetly don't like to fold when they catch bad on 4th and 5th.

I'm a bit thrown when villian doesn't lead 5th after I catch worse than him. So I'm thinking he's probably got rough high cards in the hole like 78 89 or he paired at some point. His bet on 6th just didn't feel right, I don't know why it just didn't. I'm thinking he bets here regardless of cards just because my board doesn't look very good. If he was bluffing 6th he's gonna fire 7th alot hoping I caught bad. So, I call.

This was probably not a great call?

In a three-way pot, I'd give him credit for a rough four-card hand on Fourth. Outside chance he's peeling with a pair of Threes, but that chance disintegrates when he c/calls with a Queen on Fifth. If he knows Razz, he's not going to bet a made Q8 or similar rough hand on Fifth because most smooth draws (certainly four wheel cards) are favorites over his hand, and most good Razz players would raise and cap with your hand there. He played every street consistent with an Eight in the hole, so barring (82) exactly and a brick on the river, I don't know what you could hope to beat.

I probably fold.

Before deciding on whether to call or not ask yourself the following question. What would you do if you caught a 5, 6 or 7 would you call or raise?

Now what do you think your opponent is thinking when he bets, is he thinking that you'll raise with a better hand on which he has to call and would you fold a hand like a T low? In which case he may check the 76 or 86 low and hope to snap of a bluff. If he iss not thinking like that then I'd say the hand plays giving you little chance of being +EV as the previous posted mentioned and you can fold.

Now if he will check-call 76s and 86s then we move into a different position as he has a monster or a bluff. For him only to bet monsters he must have started with 2 babies in the hole. So the chances of him pairing the 2 is much greater and so increases the chance of a bluff. I'd call around 20% of the time.

I think you guys are giving a random opponent in microHORSE way too much credit. I think at least 20% of the time he is thinking should I make pizza pockets or a bologna sandwich for dinner. I think his check/call on 5th means he is at least drawing to a Q low, and once he makes the automatic bet on 6th he's not only betting 7th automatically but would bet 8th st too if it were dealt.

SG,

This falls way short of the intensive analysis I have come to expect of you. If you put the guy on making pizza pockets for dinner, is that an auto-fold? What about if you have a read that he may be making a bologna sandwich, what's the best play?

No, you're both missing the essential point here:


take-out.

My apologies, I was heating up some leftover meatloaf while posting and didn't want it to burn. If I put the villain on a bologna sandwich, I call 100% of the time. Choosing a dinner like that indicates either a limited grasp of or total disregard for long term consequences of one's actions. His thought process would have to be along the lines of: hungry -> bologna in fridge -> no mold on bread -> take out requires putting on shirt -> make sandwich. There are not likely to be any spare synapses available to contemplate what hands hero may have, whether he can beat any of those hands, and whether or not he actually wants hero to call with a smooth T (value bet) or fold (bluff). The hero's board was non-threatening, so when the bet button popped up villain clicked it.

/story

Well, as it turned out I was a 72% favorite on 6th against villians pair of 2's and 76 draw, he got there on 7th. But I'm pretty sure he's betting when he misses as well so I guess I didn't play it horribly; was afraid I was being result orriented.

Yea, but saving those thin river bets saves you alot in the long run. Sure started out great but that happens, i´d fold even getting crazy odds. except the guy had been out of line.

Maybe not. You save the bets, but you miss the pots - so - it might be a wash or even a + to call them. I'm calling here, anyway. But that might not be the important point. If your opponents learn you will call a river bet with a t hi here - they seem to learn to check these rivers because they don't want to throw money away. At least - it seems to work that way for me - but Stars Razz is a pretty small community.