To quote an SGspecial post from not too long ago (14 months, give or take):

Given that quote, I don't think that SG believes that he should always bet 4th here.

Who knew that a hu4rollz joke could cause so much anger? I'm more in the camp of a missed bet on 4th, but what do I know.

im totally a hu4rolls 20 y/o bbvtard. need to figure out how to reload.

FYP

Obviously. But, frankly, Joe, that response was your least condescending post in this thread so far.

-ChipsAhoya

Blood bank imo.

Sorry you feel that way. I simply feel the play is bad and everyone trying to justify the play makes me feel sad.

There is no question at all, in a standard hand, not betting fourth is wrong. You are right that most of this post is trying to come up with a very limited set of circumstances where it might be right often in a very flip way.

I dont know enough about Razz or the players involved in this hand to speculate on any legit basis if this was one of those cases. But, gaming it out a bit isnt totally useless so long as nobody conclues you normally shouldnt bet in this spot.

1) If Hero was stealing, or paired on 4th, he's at best a slight dog to Villain's range.
2) Villain's not folding (not on this street anyway).
3) By betting, Hero convinces Villain of nothing other than the fact that Hero is capable of making a pro forma bet.


Just my humble opinion...

I just dont know enough about Villian to be able to say if 1 or 2 is true.

Razz ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.17 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2___folds
Seat 3: xx xx J___folds
Hero: 6 8 4___completes___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6___raises
Seat 6: xx xx K___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 7___folds

4th Street - (5.50 SB)

Hero: 6 8 4 8___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T___checks

5th Street - (2.75 BB)

Hero: 6 8 4 8 2___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T 9___calls

6th Street - (4.75 BB)

Hero: 6 8 4 8 2 5___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T 9 A___calls

River - (6.75 BB)

Hero: 6 8 4 8 2 5 T___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6 T 9 A xx___bets

Total pot: (8.75 BB - $525)


I'd like to have that bet back on the river.

Content Cliff's Notes:

SIWAS?!?!?!!!

-ChipsAhoya

heh, luckily its not as much getting of the $ as it is the depositing of it...

Your quote post is uncalled for, imo. Look, they are grasping for reasons because YOU played the hand. Too many have had too much SGKoolAid for too long. You really pushed me to say it, but its true.

Only Oscillator and bit of Rusty had enough game to come out and point the finger a bit.

I just opened the door, so the rest could see it.

Your play is transparent and you played the hand poorly. Place some poker, stop playing your ABCs.

Joe, regardless of whether or not people like SG, you have not once explained WHY you feel this is a bad play. Instead, you've made several snide comments about the regular posters in this forum. SG wasn't even the OP, so I don't understand what your problem is with him, and, apparently, most of the forum.

It's not transparent if you mix your play up by checking 4th w/ a good hand, which may get people to call 5th drawing dead. You can c/r good hands, and you can throw in c/r bluffs w/ bad hands if you want, too.

-ChipsAhoya

/Thread

no

I can agree with this, I have not laid out my reason. If I get time, and I plan too, I will work up the analysis.

[x] enough time to insult the stud forum regulars
[ ] enough time to discuss strategy

-ChipsAhoya

Great leave me waiting in suspense thank you very much for the sleepless night that I am now not going to get you pop out of no where and flame SG I mean why never see you give advice here before? whats the deal?

this is another thing you could prob agree with Joe

Joe Tall has contributed a lot to this forum and is a badass. He could have put it more politely I guess, but I pretty much see where he's coming from. He sees this as ABC/first level play, and I don't think even SG would disagree.

My perspective is that ABC play gets the money against some players on whom a balanced strategy would be spewy if it isn't +EV in a hand in isolation, since their exposure in the game will be limited and they aren't tuned-in enough to be deceived. Once a villain has seen the ABC line, that line can be used against him later if he's paying attention, or the same hand can be played the same way if not.

We've all played in games where there was a spot on whom advanced play is both wasted and unnecessary. When in a game like that, just get the money.

lets make his head bigger ehh?

Certified Badass.