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can you beat lower limit stud games? can you beat lower limit stud games?

07-19-2008 , 06:59 AM
hey guys im a LHE player learning to play stud. i was wondering if its possible to beat the lower limit games like 2/4 3/6. how easily cany you do it compared to lower stakes LHE? how is skill, variance different? thanks
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-19-2008 , 09:23 AM
Sure you can do it, and it requires the proper skills. I think it's harder for a bad player to win at Stud than at LHE, although that's just an observation and I don't have anything to back that up. There's a lot of variance at Stud Hi, maybe as much or more than LHE.

Last edited by mmctrab; 07-19-2008 at 09:32 AM.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-19-2008 , 09:49 AM
Yes, those games are plenty beatable. I have an easier time beating those games than LHE games at the same level, but I find stud more interesting and I play it better, which helps. As played today, stud probably has lower variance than LHE.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-19-2008 , 03:33 PM
One thing to consider is that you don't have a large player base in low limit stud these days. Most (if not all) stud players tend to be either old, or regulars. Now this doesn't mean that they're good players, just tight and less fishy.
I've played a decent amount of stud in AC (up to 10/20), and I'd say that your odds on getting a table with at least two/three clueless fish are not that good. Most of the people that used to play 1-5, 5/10, or 10/20 stud pre-2002 are all playing either 2/4, 3/6, or 1/2 NL these days.

With that being said, stud is still my favorite poker game. I think game/table selection is key, as far as profitability goes. I've heard that the low limit games at Foxwoods in CT, and Commerce in LA are still pretty good. In AC right now, the stud games are mostly old/tight, but the Taj 5/10 & 10/20 games are decent on weekends when they have 2-3 tables going. Borgata is spreading larger games with younger players and decent action, so it's not dead as a whole yet.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-20-2008 , 06:26 AM
so variance is probably lower bc of less fishy players in stud games and they are tighter? i heard stud has more skill involved bc of the more streets to take advantage of and/or the exposed cards. true? i play middle limit holdem and would say that LHE is dying online but not live bc i live in MN. how bad is stud dying? i still want to get good at it anyway though for horse.

are there any good stud books out there? ive been playing as much as i can lately and am not clueless about stud at all but id like to know more about the odds and basics. (starting hand selection etc.)
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-20-2008 , 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguy8853
i play middle limit holdem and would say that LHE is dying online but not live bc i live in MN. how bad is stud dying?
I wouldn't say stud is more challenging than other forms of poker, I just find it more interesting due to the exposed boards, hand reading, last card down-extra betting round, etc.

The challenging part is going to get the old rocks that populate most live stud games to chase draws, etc. The working class/hard-drinking guys, and middle-aged housewives that used to play stud aren't playing stud anymore. Now you're left with old rocks, and more knowledgeable players getting bored and burned out on hold 'em.

How bad is stud dying ? Well, from what I've seen/read the only poker rooms in the US that regularly spread multiple levels of stud are; Foxwoods in CT, Taj Mahal and Borgata in AC (other AC casinos have low limit stud only), Commerce, Bicycle, and Hollywood Park in LA.
How many stud games do they spread at Canterbury Park in MN ?

The 7CSFAP book is very good, and can applied for games under $10/20.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-20-2008 , 11:24 AM
Stud is still very soft at FW. If you play 1-5 you want to play with an ante. The ante creates more action. From what I hear the no ante 1-5 AC games have morphed into rockfests (which should be expected).
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-20-2008 , 12:03 PM
Variance is higher in LHE because a lot of money goes into the pot before the flop.

It's true that there aren't as many new players in stud games as there are in hold'em games, but a lot of stud regulars have been playing the same bad game for 20-60 years.

The last time I played stud at Foxwoods this past January, they were struggling to keep a fourth $20/40 stud game going. That means that they had three $20/40 games going strong on a Tuesday. The game I was in was mostly guys in their 40s and 50s. I couldn't put much of anything together, but the action was very good. Stud isn't as strong as it used to be out there, but it's hardly dying.

On the other hand, when Canterbury Card Club opened in 2000, they would have a one or two O/8 games, one or two stud/8 games, and the rest would be about 2/3 hold'em and 1/3 stud. They had $2/4, $3/6, $4/8, $6/12, and $15/30 stud every day, with multiple games at some limits. Now, there will usually be a maximum of three games total that aren't LHE, despite the fact that the room is significantly larger than it was in 2000.

Get Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-20-2008 , 05:57 PM
Was at Foxwoods last night (Saturday) and the 10-20 stud list was a mile long. I got on the list, and the 5-10 stud list, and in the meantime I played 4-8 hold'em, which was an incredibly good game, got up about 15bb and was called for 5-10. The game was great, loose and lots of good action. Was never called for 10-20 in over 3 hours -- that's how long the list was. Also, Foxwoods doesn't dedicate dealers to stud, so there were only 2 or 3 tables of 5-10 and 10-20 even though they had enough players waiting to open several more. Rake at 2-4 and 3-6 would probably be pretty severe -- but the games are very beatable. I'd say play 5-10 or 4-8 -- same rake, same player caliber, slightly higher stakes make it easier to win.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-20-2008 , 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurl904
One thing to consider is that you don't have a large player base in low limit stud these days. Most (if not all) stud players tend to be either old, or regulars. Now this doesn't mean that they're good players, just tight and less fishy.
I've played a decent amount of stud in AC (up to 10/20), and I'd say that your odds on getting a table with at least two/three clueless fish are not that good. Most of the people that used to play 1-5, 5/10, or 10/20 stud pre-2002 are all playing either 2/4, 3/6, or 1/2 NL these days.

With that being said, stud is still my favorite poker game. I think game/table selection is key, as far as profitability goes. I've heard that the low limit games at Foxwoods in CT, and Commerce in LA are still pretty good. In AC right now, the stud games are mostly old/tight, but the Taj 5/10 & 10/20 games are decent on weekends when they have 2-3 tables going. Borgata is spreading larger games with younger players and decent action, so it's not dead as a whole yet.
Live it can be tough to beat the rake at low limits. In most of the games I have played live recently the post above sums up what I have seen as well.

The action players and new players want to play Holdem and Omaha. I can remember when you went to Vegas in the past and they gave new players lessens, they taught 7 card stud in many of the poker rooms. Now it's hard to find a stud game in Vegas. I love the game, but it is tough to find an edge and beat the rake today live in low limit games. Especially when they are dropping 5 bucks a hand +1 for a bad beat jackpot.

I think trying to play more mixed games like horse you will find less skilled players that you can punish if you have a good understanding of the 3 stud games.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-20-2008 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WMB
Stud is still very soft at FW. If you play 1-5 you want to play with an ante. The ante creates more action. From what I hear the no ante 1-5 AC games have morphed into rockfests (which should be expected).
Yes, the AC $1-5 games are not very good anymore. Taj & Harrah's still spread it for the ol' timers every day. Bally's has 1-5-10 (.50 ante) stud, sometimes two tables, with autoshufflers. Trop has $3/6 no ante, which is still tight, but has bigger pots than the 1-5 games.

I've heard that the Foxwoods 1-5 games (.50 ante) are decent, and that the 5/10 games are tight, similar to Taj in AC.
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-21-2008 , 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy B
Variance is higher in LHE because a lot of money goes into the pot before the flop.

It's true that there aren't as many new players in stud games as there are in hold'em games, but a lot of stud regulars have been playing the same bad game for 20-60 years.

The last time I played stud at Foxwoods this past January, they were struggling to keep a fourth $20/40 stud game going. That means that they had three $20/40 games going strong on a Tuesday. The game I was in was mostly guys in their 40s and 50s. I couldn't put much of anything together, but the action was very good. Stud isn't as strong as it used to be out there, but it's hardly dying.

On the other hand, when Canterbury Card Club opened in 2000, they would have a one or two O/8 games, one or two stud/8 games, and the rest would be about 2/3 hold'em and 1/3 stud. They had $2/4, $3/6, $4/8, $6/12, and $15/30 stud every day, with multiple games at some limits. Now, there will usually be a maximum of three games total that aren't LHE, despite the fact that the room is significantly larger than it was in 2000.

Get Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players.

they still have the monday 10 omaha games i think. and 2/4 stud and the rare 3/6. but i remember when they had a 30 stud game going i think it was the 30? long time ago. omaha 4/8 goes often enough it seems. stud is dead at canterbury i think
can you beat lower limit stud games? Quote
07-22-2008 , 01:34 AM
Canterbury raised their limits to $30/60 in 2001. At that time, the $15/30 stud game still went regularly but not every day. They did get a few $20/40 and $30/60 stud games going. In either late 2001 or early 2002 $30/60 stud/8 became a hot game and it went every day for several months and gave way to $20/40 O/8 late in 2002. $30/60 stud/8 mostly goes during the Fall Classic, and last year it only went three times, one of them all too brief.

The $6/12 stud/8 game is generally restricted to Friday nights these days. And lately it's moved underground.
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