No reads on Seat 4. Seat 7 is one of the worst players I play against. He plays hands that make no sense, and he plays them in ways that don't make sense. Through 716 hands w/ him, he is running 63/17/1.37. Just b/c he bets the ace on 4th doesn't mean he has aces. In fact, I'd tend to believe he doesn't have aces here a majority of the time. I just call on 4th and 5th to try to keep seat 4 in the hand, b/c his hand looks so weak. Normally I might raise 5th, but seat 4s hand is so weak looking that I know he'll fold if I raise, but might be tempted to call if I call, and perhaps have a tough decision on 6th when I raise if he catches something good. Seat 7 isn't folding no matter what if I raise b/c he's that bad. I feel like I have a hammerlock on the hand, which is why I try to wait until 6th to raise. IDK, maybe I'm just being results oriented, b/c if I raise 5th instead, he'd still call and hit. Thoughts?


7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $1, Bring-In $1.50 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Hero: 8 8 T___completes
Seat 2: xx xx 2___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 4___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T___calls___calls

4th Street - (4.10 SB)

Hero: 8 8 T 8___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4 9___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T A___bets

5th Street - (3.55 BB)

Hero: 8 8 T 8 4___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4 9 5___folds
Seat 7: xx xx T A Q___bets

6th Street - (5.55 BB)

Hero: 8 8 T 8 4 2___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T A Q K___bets

River - (7.55 BB)

Hero: 8 8 T 8 4 2 5___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T A Q K xx___bets

Total pot: (9.55 BB - $95.50)

Results (in white):Seat 7: draaucafe showed [Js 8d Tc As Qs Kh 6d] and won ($93.50) with a straight, Ace high


Total pot $95.50 | Rake $2

Note: this site shuffles the hole cards.





EDIT: converter screwed up and didn't post results, so I added them in unconverted.

Ok this is one of my favorite things to do in stud.
On 4th if you raise it will look like you're raising for a free card since most of these players don't think the hearts are semi dead and you wouldn't complete a flush draw there. They just see hearts and possible straight draws. So I definitely raise 4th in which the ace will likely raise you thinking you are taking a free card and you can then call and check raise 5th or cap and bet out 5th in hopes he raises you again if you hit what looks like a brick. Most thinking players will give you action with aces in this spot.

I personally raise 4th and see what he does. If he 3 bets i call and check raise 5th and take the lead from there.

As played...
You have to raise somewhere. If not 4th please raise 5th.
Don't ever wait till 6th to raise. You never have a "hammerlock" in stud.

The reason I didn't raise 4th is b/c I don't think he has aces, and he's not the type of player to spazz out trying to rep them. What is your reason for raising 5th? Seat 4 doesn't have anything remotely scary, so I don't see the need to try to isoraise him out of the pot. Seat 7 will almost certainly bet again on 6th if I just call him, and raising to protect my hand on 5th makes no sense b/c he isn't folding anything that isn't drawing dead against me. Raising for value on 5th makes sense, but I get the same value raise if I wait until 6th to make it, plus I have a greater chance of keeping seat 4 in the pot, who has such a pitiful hand that it would be stupid to try to chase him out.

Stop worrying about people folding out and more about getting the most value out of your hand. Seat 7 is going no where with his board, and the other seat is folding regardless of what happens on 5th. On 5th you are raising for value. With 2 streets left there is potentially more action even, someone could make an open pair and bet out again. Also you are protecting your hand. As I said before trip tens is a great hand but not an iron clad titanic. Raise 4th or 5th. Don't wait to 6th in any hand unless you catch well on 6th.

CG is spot on in this thread. Waiting to raise in stud is suicide when hand values can radically change so quickly.

I like Ceegee's reasoning here - I'd just add one thing to raising 4th / raise the donk-bet on 5th line which is that a lot of action killing cards can fall and put the villain on the defensive so get your money in. A really good spot to own the villain here imo.

the problem with raising fourth imo is that people are inclined to give up 5th to aggression if they havent bet on a bb street. once people make that bb street bet i find theyre more apt to play hands to 7th.

all in all i think youd make more long run by waiting till 5th to raise ( even tho thats a really standard strong line ) and getting that raise called or raised and seeing the hand played out, than you would by raising 4th and all the variables that go with that.

i like raising 4th because he caught an ace, and if that did pair him he should be blasting you on this street or the next. i dont like raising fourth because raising an ace is a really really strong line and might elicit folds before big bet streets.

another factor is your image to him obviously. if youre playing back a ton like id suspect ceegee would, you can jam early a ton and expect to be called down lighter more often. people dont take giving away free cards much into account until theyve seen you do it. its a good thought tho.

i think safe bet is raising fifth. i think waiting till 6th is definitely missed value.

Ceegee is right about the general case. People don't fold as often as you think they will, especially action players, and this is a beautiful value spot against Aces or Aces-up, against which his raise/call 4th, c/r Fifth line is sweet. Failing to raise Fifth in any case is grounds for losing your Stud license.

You didn't lose anywhere near enough in this hand, but I'm glad you didn't try to make it up on Sixth or the river.

QFT