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2/4 Stud 8 Hand 2/4 Stud 8 Hand

01-10-2010 , 01:28 AM
haven't played poker in like 5 months but have had some time off recently and started up again. still trying to get into the groove of things...

is the bet on fourth fine? its either check/fold or just bet right?
fifth is standard imo
six is a check/call or check fold?
seventh is a fold?

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Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 Limit Stud Hi/Lo $0.40 Ante - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

3rd Street: (1.4 SB)
Seat 1: xx xx K____Seat 1 folds
Seat 2: xx xx 9____Seat 2 folds
Hero: J J 3___Hero brings in for $0.50
Seat 5: xx xx 6____Seat 5 calls
Seat 6: xx xx 9____Seat 6 folds
Seat 7: xx xx T____Seat 7 folds
Seat 8: xx xx 5____Seat 8 calls

4th Street: (2.15 SB) (3 players)
Hero: J J 3 A___Hero bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 5____Seat 5 calls
Seat 8: xx xx 5 3____Seat 8 calls

5th Street: (2.575 BB) (3 players)
Hero: J J 3 A K___Hero bets
Seat 5: xx xx 6 5 T____Seat 5 calls
Seat 8: xx xx 5 3 J____Seat 8 calls

6th Street: (5.575 BB) (3 players)
Hero: J J 3 A K 6___Hero checks
Seat 5: xx xx 6 5 T 8____Seat 5 checks
Seat 8: xx xx 5 3 J 6____Seat 8 checks

7th Street: (5.575 BB) (3 players)
Hero: J J 3 A K 6 T___Hero checks___
Seat 5: xx xx 6 5 T 8 xx____Seat 5 checks____Seat 5 calls
Seat 8: xx xx 5 3 J 6 xx____Seat 8 bets
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 05:29 AM
Regarding your choices for 4th...I'd like to know what would probably be the best option for me to see 5th street cheaply, but, I'd also like to send a signal that I have a good hand, too (because I'd love to start building my fold equity if I could) so, if betting gives me the best of both worlds (FE and a cheap street) then I go that route. If the table was super aggressive and didn't pay attention to boards like yours, then I'm not sure if I'd want to lead here, so for me, this is highly player dependant.

That said...usually when someone leads out w/your type of board (regardless that you were the bring-in because you still have to have a hand to be betting into two good boards) the others just follow along, so w/out any reads, I'm leaning more towards a bet.

Also..

Unless your opponents were real passive...if you check 4th, you're more likely to get blown out of the hand if/when someone bets a low draw and the other raises w/a pair etc., so I think when you check, you stand to cost yourself extra bets vs. just leading out.

5th is a standard bet and 6th (like on 4th), is highly player dependant so I can go either way but if noone raised you anywhere I probably go ahead and bet. Your board is very strong (A36) not to mention that you do have the fourth heart ith for extra outs which is probably one of the main reasons why I prefer the bet, and, if someone can raise you here w/your board, then folding the river UI should be pretty easy, imo.

Last edited by Rush17; 01-10-2010 at 05:58 AM.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush17
(because I'd love to start building my fold equity if I could)
I really don't see random 2-4 players ever folding before 7th when hitting their ranges this hard. They might not be good enough to realize that somebody bring-in in won't have cards matching 3hAh very often, but they're bad enough not to care about drawing against 3hAh7d boards.

Betting to avoid a raise might be a good idea though.

I don't think we have all that good equity, as we have RIO, will face a freeroll on fifth and the lows having equity favorites on fourth pretty often.

Assuming that both limpers have low hole cards the remaining deck is really rich in lows, 22/39. So the chances of scooping with a high only hand is pretty damn low. And if either of them hits well on fifth a fold starts looking awfully tempting.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 11:44 AM
I bet fourth without thinking. Both your opponents have caught very good cards, though. They are not folding now or any time before the river. This talk of fold equity is bollocks. You're going to have to show down the best hand in order to win. You have a lousy pair of Jacks with some secondary values. If you had caught an off-suit Nine we wouldn't be having this discussion, right? I think you could do a lot worse than checking and folding. Who knows, maybe they give you a free card (note: this will not happen in higher-stakes games).

As played, fifth is definitely a bet. On sixth I check with the intention of calling one bet. On the river, I think the pot's big enough to call one bet.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
bollocks
I applaud
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 02:55 PM
I think Bet 6th, Bet 7th any improvement ++++ Scoop %


as played, c/c 6th, on the end ??? I dunno rly tbh - the way the hand played, weak hand, small pot, player to act ... I still think at the odds ur good a lot though ?? would have to crunch numbers + make assumptions about the ranges which I won't do, being a day of rest

in practice i would fold - not sure if that's correct tho.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 05:13 PM
Why are you betting 4th when you will be playing out of position for the rest of the hand unless someone else pairs? You cannot win by betting, this hand is going to showdown more often than not due to your opponents value check 4th and be proud that you did, your opponents will likely check with you and the pot size will be small, exactly where you will like it with a weak high hand with back-door low possibilities.

I wont discuss 5th because you wouldn't be in this position on 5th if you played 4th optimally.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT*
Why are you betting 4th when you will be playing out of position for the rest of the hand unless someone else pairs? You cannot win by betting, this hand is going to showdown more often than not due to your opponents value check 4th and be proud that you did, your opponents will likely check with you and the pot size will be small, exactly where you will like it with a weak high hand with back-door low possibilities.

I wont discuss 5th because you wouldn't be in this position on 5th if you played 4th optimally.
Do most people think this is the case...i'm not saying your wrong, check fold is probably better, but this almost never checks around
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT*
Why are you betting 4th when you will be playing out of position for the rest of the hand unless someone else pairs? You cannot win by betting, this hand is going to showdown more often than not due to your opponents value check 4th and be proud that you did, your opponents will likely check with you and the pot size will be small, exactly where you will like it with a weak high hand with back-door low possibilities.

I wont discuss 5th because you wouldn't be in this position on 5th if you played 4th optimally.
You really think OP is getting by two opponents who have both hit good cards? Apparently you feel that players at this level are really passive but even at the $2/4 (which is not that low seeing that it's online) I can't imagine OP getting to see 5th for free all that often.

My line is to bet 4th and fold only if it comes back to me for a double raise. Maybe you don't have FE here (I can agree w/Andy on the "bollucks" comment) but if your line is to c/c, then I still think betting is better---but if you planned on folding all together, then of course, check away and wait for a better spot to play that hand...or not at all.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 09:10 PM
no way you can c/c 4th profitably here.

you can c/f, which is obv fine

or you can bet ... and eval when raised, but that's rare - your board is too strong, and you did just bet out into two players ... one of whom has a very pretty board. he might actually raise the other out.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT7
no way you can c/c 4th profitably here.

you can c/f, which is obv fine

or you can bet ... and eval when raised, but that's rare - your board is too strong, and you did just bet out into two players ... one of whom has a very pretty board. he might actually raise the other out.
I agree with you completely.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-10-2010 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaKing
Do most people think this is the case...i'm not saying your wrong, check fold is probably better, but this almost never checks around

I did not say that the hero should call, with boards this low it will often check through. When someone bets in a multiway pot with these three boards its a very strong statement to their opponents

The times that it doesnt check through then its time to change the plan, you dont want to be in a 3 way pot in this scenario, and frankly even HUHU isn't a great spot.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-11-2010 , 04:01 AM
I agree with TT here. Check 4th. If 65 bets and the other dude calls, I think its a fold, but if 65s checks and the other dude bets you can consider a raise.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote
01-11-2010 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9.5fingershuffle
if 65s checks and the other dude bets you can consider a raise.
I'd try this line at 10/20, or with a read. But at 2/4, even if this guy is holding 2378 he's likely not folding for 2 bets cold.
2/4 Stud 8 Hand Quote

      
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