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10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check 10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check

07-04-2009 , 06:26 AM
Should I raise 5th? I think 7th is standard. How's the hand overall?

Oh, and I personally think third is fine, but limp-calling sounds like a terrible play, so if there's something wrong with that, tell me also. I am not sure I want to raise/call against the villain with no reads on 3betting range in these spots, and I am not folding here, I think, so I like the third street play. Is it bad?

Poker Stars $10/$20 Limit Razz $1 Ante - 7 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

3rd Street:
Hero: 6 5 9
Seat 3: xx xx Q
Seat 4: xx xx 6
Seat 5: xx xx K
Seat 6: xx xx T
Seat 7: xx xx 7
Seat 8: xx xx 8

Seat 5 brings in for $3, Seat 6 folds, Seat 7 folds, Seat 8 folds, Hero calls, Seat 3 folds, Seat 4 raises, Seat 5 folds, Hero calls

4th Street: (3 SB) (2 players)
Hero: 6 5 9 2
Seat 4: xx xx 6 5

Seat 4 bets, Hero calls

5th Street: (2.5 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 6 5 9 2 8
Seat 4: xx xx 6 5 9

Seat 4 bets, Hero calls

6th Street: (4.5 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 6 5 9 2 8 T
Seat 4: xx xx 6 5 9 J

Hero checks, Seat 4 checks

7th Street: (4.5 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 6 5 9 2 8 T K
Seat 4: xx xx 6 5 9 J xx

Hero checks, Seat 4 bets, Hero calls
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-04-2009 , 06:56 PM
I tend not to defend given that seat 4 looks pretty strong -- he's shooting through two reasonable door cards, and you're more likely to have a hand you want to defend with a Nine door. In the best case, you're not far behind, but because your hand is exposed your opponent will be able to represent many more hands than you can and will be able to play for value perfectly.

That's also a good reason not to raise Fifth.
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-04-2009 , 07:48 PM
elec you read the hand wrong on 3rd. i think everythings fine. i think raising 5th would be good and you c/c 7th. id like to see timing on 3rd as well.

im assuming youve never completed in this spot and gotten a c,f,raise and that youve never limped this spot and gotten a fold or call and only raised. im assuming villain seems like hed comp this spot 100%

the arguement of limp calling v completing hinges on a few things. will he fold 3rd or always play back. if hes always playing back it turns into a matter of value and i think you get more value from raising 5ths in this spot than making a huge push with an underdeveloped 3rd that is still probably the best hand ( a hypothetical comp/3bet type dealie just for value from a theoretical standpoint ). hes also more apt to turn his hand face up on a later street since its more $$ and youre not going to be folding here much at this point.
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-04-2009 , 08:01 PM
Aw yeah, sorry. I like completing Third so the Six has to spend two bets to attempt a resteal. Limping allows seat 4 to represent a hand with minimal investment by completing, and if he's never seen you complete/fold then we gave him reason enough not to get involved.

His action is still a reason not to raise Fifth, but you're going to win your share of these pots and should never consider folding, especially considering Sixth.

F this converter, by the way.
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-04-2009 , 08:58 PM
How much does the incredibly small ante effect our 3rd street play on this hand? Even with the 9 up I would complete this hand 100% in this situation in the games I play where the ante is 1/4-1/6 of a small bet. I feel like I'd still complete despite wishing I could just fold because I know if I was seat 4 I wouldn't be making life easy for the guy that completed with a 9 face up for the world to see.
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-05-2009 , 12:58 AM
Quote:
Limping allows seat 4 to represent a hand with minimal investment by completing,
I am not sure if it's really wise for him to limp behind with a better hand. I can see him limping behind with like an 876 or something weak like that, and I'm wary enough of players who slow play third that I don't think he gains as much value from me spazzing on later streets because his hand is underepped than he would if he'd just raise in this spot. My hand is strong enough and the players normal enough that I would be happy to just play it for face value for the most part as I did here, though again I considered a 5th raise for value + information... I don't think he will 3bet with worse, but he will call with all his live draws, so I think raising could be good... but like I said I'm not sure, and I'm a nit who headdesks whenever they 3bet and I want to puke.

Quote:
How much does the incredibly small ante effect our 3rd street play on this hand? Even with the 9 up I would complete this hand 100% in this situation in the games I play where the ante is 1/4-1/6 of a small bet.
Oh, yeah, I'd raise a 9 here into 1 low card also normally, but I'd felt like limping to toy around with the idea; if villain had a 956 or something he will be 3betting here; even with a T56, I think he will be 3betting profitably, considering the way I will play in later streets unless I'm going to call him down really light. Am I correct in thinking that?

In his position, playing against a relative unknown who's probably going to play straightforwardly, I will be raising T56 type hands, is this okay?
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-05-2009 , 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSeeker
I am not sure if it's really wise for him to limp behind with a better hand.
I mean he can represent a good hand not by limping, but by completing, which costs one bet. If you complete, he can only represent a good hand by raising you, which costs him two bets if he's re-stealing.

Quote:
In his position, playing against a relative unknown who's probably going to play straightforwardly, I will be raising T56 type hands, is this okay?
Yes, but you will have to play it carefully, because most villains will suspect a stealing range to skew as weak as this and be quite suspicious. You will end up showing down a few of these hands and then you'll have to tighten your stealing range after showing a Ten in the hole or whatever.
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-05-2009 , 07:50 AM
3rd street is ok, depends on the opponent. Many players will take a shot at you with any 2 cards on 3rd, and you should probably be raising it up to make them pay for that. A more refined villain may take shots with any 2 cards below 9, and you're slightly behind that range with some playing disadvantages to boot.

By 5th street you've taken a healthy lead and should probably raise. Slowplaying vs a habitual bluffer has merit of course, but as you discovered in this hand, this is a popular spot for the villain to stop putting in bets unless you are beaten.

Def bet 6th oop as a major favorite . Your board strongly suggests you will not be folding, so get a bet in there in a spot where he will quite often be checking behind but still drawing live.

One of the difficulties of playing with a mediocre card showing is that your opponent tends to know where he stands. You exacerbate the problem by playing passively in spots where you have a big equity edge but could are board-locked by making sure that he always chooses when the bets go in. Force your opponent to pay the max to play weak hands against you, and accept that these are high variance spots where getting in an extra bet when behind but still drawing live is just the price of poker.

-eric
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-05-2009 , 11:26 AM
What to do if raised on 5th?

He can still legitimately have me beat in this spot, even with a 97, which I am drawing super thin against.

What about 6th?

Just call down?
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote
07-05-2009 , 04:48 PM
yeah call down
10/20 Razz Marginal Hand Line Check Quote

      
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