What's going on with some of the Sands dealers? I hadn't been there since the expansion but today I witnessed:

- a dealer at a 1-2 NLHE game announced "raise to $6" as a joke. The UTG player in seat 5 had raised blind to $4. Seat 10 called, but the dealer thought it would be funny to instead announce it as a raise. Seats 1 and 2 folded to the "raise" and were none too happy to later find out it was a "joke."

- another hand. 4 players see the flop. Seat 1 leads out, seats 3 and 5 call. Dealer burns and puts out the turn before seat 7 acts. Instead of following proper procedure, and shuffling back into the deck the premature turn card, the dealer and seat 7 agree to just fold his hand.

- I'm involved in a hand and make a pot-sized bet on the turn. My opponent goes all-in for more than my bet. Dealer counts the chips and tells me how much more for me to call. I look at the bet and ask if he isn't $5 dollars off on how much I would have to put in to call. He realizes I'm right and then in a sarcastic tone asks me, "you care that much about $5?"

- A player across the table from me tosses in a red $5 chip pre-flop and appears to say something, which inaudible to me. Three players after hims but before me toss in $2 to call. Player then says to dealer, "I said raise to $5." Dealer then tells the three limpers it's $5 to call. Sands has a rule that if you put money in the pot by mistake, including if you didn't know there was an earlier raise, it has to stay in. Because of that rule I ask the dealer, "did you not hear the raise, or did you hear it and not announce it?" Dealer tells me it doesn't matter.

Everybody makes mistakes at times and I'm usually pretty tolerant when dealers make them. But a bunch of the dealers today seemed like they couldn't care less about doing their job right. Was it just a weird day or are things worse since the room expanded?

I'm pretty sure if the betting is complete, the turn would stay even if put out prematurely. The floor should probably stop by to confirm but, seems to be the right ruling at least!

betting isnt complete
dealer was just being lazy and didnt want to call the floor

What time should I be there Wednesday to get a seat in the 10/25 when it starts up?

From my experience in checking in on the live game report I would say 9AM.

There has been some problems in the O8 game as well with some of the new dealers. Couple occasions when hands went to showdown as individuals looked at their hand without tabling it we had the dealer ask them "you do not have a low?" in one instance and in another with A235 on board the dealer asked "you do not have a wheel also?". One occasion when I held nut hi hand and was heads up, dealer asked my opponent while he had his cards in hand if he had a low? The player not realizing a low was present thanked him and then tabled his hand for half of a 300. pot. Another time in a multi-way pot on a board that a back-door flush got there the dealer asked all 5 players involved once one guy tabled a straight how none of them could have a flush? Once he said this one player looked back at his hand and said oh yeah, I do have the flush. Very annoying when you lose the pot by the dealer alerting another not so aware player that he has you beat without tabling his hand or make them aware of the low. The older experienced dealers do not make this mistake but the new ones now have done it on about 4 occasions in the last 2 weeks that I can recall.

Some of the new dealers are better than others.

Some just don't have the basic mechanics of poker dealing down yet. Others are interested in dating the married friends of your wife.

How often does the O/8 game off and at what stakes?

2-3xs a week. Usually 5/10 full kill, occasionally 10/20 no kill, 3 times 10/20 full kill. They will not offer half kill as an option. Game has been becoming more popular with sometimes 2 tables running at once on some nights.

if seat 7 folds, then the action was complete. Thus no one gained an advantage. unless you want to say that seat 7 folded because he saw a card that came?

Seat 7 didn't fold yet. This is a no-brainer ruling.

If the 7 seat was thinking about calling with pocket 6's and the premature turn card was a 6, would you say the 7 seat gained an advantage?

Personally no I wouldn't, as the card has the same chance as coming out as before. But I would defer cause most players would. Again seat 7 did fold, the action has not changed.

I wouldn't freak out if the turn was kept, nor would I if it was re-shuffled.

I'm sorry I derailed the thread ; /

No harm or derail from asking a question. But as others have written, it's a standard rule to pull the premature turn card back. And the dealer has to call the floor over to make the ruling. The dealer in this case was clearly in the wrong.

Floor needs to educate dealers. They absolutely (esp in O8) should say nothing until the player turns over their hand or folds (or a reaonsble amount of time goes by, then the dealer can motion to the player and say something simple like "sir?") but never intimate that a low or flush would be good.

That's a big no no in O8.

PASANDSMAN - I've thought about my and your posts and am wondering if the root cause goes back to something I raised a few weeks ago: Room management, or lack thereof. I know you and I disagree on how well managed the poker room is.

At the risk of me talking an issue to death, did you bring your observations to the floor or management's attention? I know I didn't. Not because I didn't want to but because there was never anybody around. In any other room I've played in I might have gotten up and quietly spoken to a floorperson to ask them to speak to the dealers in private. In most cases the floorperson would probably wander by to casually observe the dealer for a hand or two.

At Sands I'd have had to walk to the front desk and break up their huddle. And then I'd expect nothing to come of it. I could be wrong about that but that is the imression they've given me. And other players, too, I should add.

So problems don't get raised and don't get fixed. Example - I once pointed out to a dealer that he has a flaw with the way he handles mucked cards and he exposes them to one end of the table. He didn't correct his technique so I brought it to the floor's attention. Nobody came over to observe the dealer and months later he still has the same flaw.

You are there more than I am and know the floorpeople and dealers better than I, do you find that bringing dealer performance issues to the management's attention is simple and effective?

Floor 100% agree,whether i'm right or wrong. And if the 7 seat wanted to play, then 100% card is returned. I still believe if the 7seat drops then the card would stay, and if you asked you would get the ruling from some floors. Although like I said I wouldn't be upset either way. Random card imo is a random card.

You are giving seat 7 an advantage... that's a no no.

In all cases the card should be shuffled back in.

I did not bring the performance issues to the management's attention on these current mishaps in the O8 game. I have brought previous issues to their attention and it was simple and effective. In a ten hour session, a dealer in the O8 game may make what I would call a major error like once. Although it bothers me, I did not want to be the tattletale on a newly trained dealer who is a little unfamiliar with the game. We usually take the matter in our own hands and tell him/her they can not ask a player to table their hand or ask a player who did not table their hand if they have X. The new dealers are usually noticably scared when they get to the O8 game out of ignorance of the game and I would not have the heart to call their boss over if they made a mistake out of sheer ignorance. If the same one did it a second time however, I would get the floor involved. The floor is nothing but courteous with the O8 players IMO and go out of their way to get our game started and hold us a table on busy nights. I really have no complaints when it comes to them in that respect. If they say they will open us a game at 5PM, you can look at your watch and at 5PM they will call the game.

How is it the same chance? If a card is put out prematurely on the turn, it has exactly 0% of being the new turn card.

Edit: It also lets the player see a card before deciding what to do, which cannot be allowed to happen.

If the card is reinserted into the deck and the deck is shuffled, it has the same odds as any other card of being the new turn card. That's what should happen is a card is prematurely revealed, no?

quick question-are straddles allowed at the Sands?

Nope. Blind raises only.

No, when the turn card is put out prematurely it is put aside and what would have been the river card becomes the new turn.

Card is pulled aside. Seat 7 acts and action completes.
Then I believe they burn and then put the river out which becomes the turn card.

Then turn action ensues

Then the bad turn card is shuffled back into the deck and then one is turned over when it is time for the river without burning as u already did a burn.