Creates a lot more action and is a fun dynamic. Also changes strategy in the stud especially, since the action starts to the left of the kill.

Game plays bigger than $25-$50. Each night there has been at least one $5k+ winner

I love how people decide that poker games that have been spread for decades, with a fine balance between luck and skill, just don't have enough action and can be changed on a whim.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not reactionary, change is OK, but I'd take this more seriously if someone on the East Coast like the Borgata who really knows and gets stud were to decide it's helpful.

I don't really trust the Muckleshoot for stuff like this.

Yep, another thing that WA is inferior to other places that AKQ knows.

Also, I can easily see how this structure could kill the action. Basically unopened non-kill O8 pots are a game of Chicken. The opener dares anyone else to call him, knowing that taking a flop HU will drastically decrease the equity of both players because almost half the pot is coming out for the next kill. In isolation, everyone else including the BB should fold the majority of their range once the pot is opened.

So, no flop, no kill, same thing next hand.

I could think through the game theory more, but at some point, it probably becomes rational to make -EV calls (especially from the BB) to punish the opener for running over the table. And obviously, to be worth playing in, the game needs some -EV players, so perhaps it's so loose that there aren't any $110 pots.

I don't understand your fixation on this issue. Do you dispute that seven-stud has been spread routinely on the East Coast for much longer than at the Muckleshoot?

I'd have the same reaction if the Borgata tried to start spreading panguingue, but decided that WA and CA casinos didn't understand how the game should be run.

No buddy, you just automatically assume Muck to be inferior, same as how you painted Seattle poker scene as a whole.

I am not fixated on anything, except maybe calling you up on the same garage out-of-towners thinking.

agreed.

Well there will be seats open on Friday if you'd like to discuss the finer points with the rest of us?

I still need to accrue some more bankroll, but maybe I'll run good and join you soon.

Guys, I know it's fun to bash me, but could we please set aside the ad hominem debate for a second? Leaving geography totally out of this, whose judgment do you trust on starting up a mid-stakes OE game:

• Someone from a room that has spread $75/150 OE regularly for over a decade?
• Someone from a room with regular (probably daily) $75/150, $20/40, $5/10, and $1-3 or $1-5 stud high games in addition to some O8 running for over a decade?
• Someone from a room with daily $4/8 Omaha, semiweekly $15/30 Omaha, and within the last year has started doing some weekly OE?

Is my characterization of the level of the Muckleshoot's seven-stud experience (in the third bullet) wrong? If I'm misinformed, please inform me.

I played 20/40 OE with a half kill some in Phoenix; even though it didn't change the stakes as drastically, it really ruined stud 8 for me. It's normally my favorite game, but I don't enjoy it at all with a kill, it changes the whole flow of the game and I didn't enjoy it at all.

Can someone familiar with Suquamish Clearwater Casino tell us about their 3rd Sunday tourney? Looking for alternatives and 30 min levels got my attention.

Looks promising, outside my drive range, I dont understand why tournaments get posted to casino sites without a basic structure sheet...so frustrating.

Had good fortune lately, going to take my shot at the Muckleshoot that week, they have some bigger tourneys that weekend.

This still dosen't make any sense to me. So the killer is forced to bring it in at double the stakes? If that's the case there's no way this creates more action considering you now have the real possibility of an A bringing it in...

And just for the record I agree w AKQJT's premise if for no other reason than that if something like this were a good idea it would already be done this way.

Right, I'm not exactly understanding this. Is the kill posted in addition to the low-card bring-in? So if the kill has an A up and the 3 is the low card on board, the 3 brings it in normally (maybe $10 in a $25/50 game) and the kill posts $50, and action starts to the left of the kill with betting limits of $50 and $100. Is that right?

I found this description of a totally different kill structure in a $20/40 game: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/20...ategy-1278370/

No. Kill is the bring in. Action as normal from there (first to act is left of the bring in).

Thanks for the info.

I can see how with the right lineup this could be great. If it's generating as much action as you say, the lineup must be fantastic. The problem is, as soon as a couple of live ones get up from the game, if there aren't more live ones on the list to take their place, then the game should dry up quicker than more sustainably-structured poker games would dry up.

I won't comment on who or how many live ones might be playing, but in my opinion I think the game is very good. There are a very small number of players capable of beating that game consistently (and if you are familiar with the game, i think you'd know who they are)

Played a bit at Casino Caribbean this afternoon in Kirkland.

Daily tournaments not too bad, they don't put in ante's as early as Tulalip. Got 32 runners today. Which I guess is right about average?

Punted a quick hundo at Spanish.

And every time I play 3/6 limit, I tell myself I will never play again haha, not enough room to make plays, regs seem to play really soft against each other, almost feels like people are just trying to break even and hit monte carlos.

Have always liked the core dealers they have at the card room though.

Heard tell the room is pretty dark. Confirm/deny?

Will probably be in Seattle for a night this weekend. Where can I find 2/5 or higher? Tulalip, muckleshoot? Anywhere else?

I pretty much need to stay at a Motel 6 due to budget and travelling with a dog.

Thanks.

Budget constraints and looking for a 2/5 game?

Haha yeah, Bat cave

Been trying to work more of the live local tournaments into my routine, I think they are extremely +EV.

Today didn't work out but Im happy with how I played.

So far on average, I think most of the tables I've played at have had 3-5 Loose/Passives, maybe a couple TAG's, and a splashy LAG.

I didnt know all 2/5 players were such ballers?

Not to make fun, but to say that daily donkaments have anything but horrible players is kind of a bad joke.