It's a carry-over from the old days, when the standard Northern California blinds structure for five-card draw and lowball, including no-limit draw and lowball, was to have a small blind on the dealer button, a middle blind the next spot over and a large blind after that. After the blinds were posted, the next player in had the option to match the pot or fold. Hence $1-$1-$2, $4-to-go; $2-$3-$5, $10-to-go; and $5-$10-$15, $30-to-go, were common blind structures.

The first NLHE game I ever played in, at Artichoke Joe's in the late '90s, had the blind structure of $2-$3-$5, $10-to-go.

Another carry-over from this structure was that, for a long time in Northern California, in limit hold'em games the drop would be funded from a live blind bet on the button. In a $3-$6 hold'em game with a $3 drop, this would mean that the player on the button would pay the drop and then see a flop for free in an unraised pot, or at least see it for a discount when someone raised. This made the dynamics of the game interesting -- among other things it meant that even in raised pots the player on the button was correct to see a flop with pretty much any two cards.

In addition, the drop structure (vs. rake elsewhere in the country) makes a difference.

Lets say 4 players see a flop at $1/$2. 4 x $2=$8 in the pot. But whoops, once you take out the drop on the flop, as done in most CA rooms, the pot is now $8 minus $4=$4. But whoops, what about jackpot? -$1 for jackpot, so now pot is $3!!!

No point playing for $3...

In a rake structure, nothing is taken out until pot reaches $10, so nothing would be taken out until the flop bets go in.

Instead, if it is $4 to go and 4 players see the flop, $16 in the pot minus $4 for rake and $1 for jackpot=$11...much more worthwhile to play for.

At least that's my impression.

Thus, most $2/3/5 games, you can limp for $5.

Although, that still wouldn't explain the $5/$5/$10 at Bay where it is $20 to go - maybe Alan's explanation is the reason for that one.

This is something I've noticed at the Cal Grand, where the BTN posts 1 chip.

I always thought NL was a recent (late 90s-early 2000s) creation. IMR, I'm old enough to be President and was the youngest person at leo doc's dinner.

Looking at staying a couple nights in San Fran in January. Any PLO in town?

Graton Resort Opening Day TR



I had heard the grand opening for "Godzilla" as the Press Democrat put it on their front page headline was 10am. I arrived at 9:30 to give time to park and catch the opening hoopla. I guess since it was such an event they opened the doors early. Probably the biggest event this area has seen since they opened the Snoopy Ice Rink.

View looking at line of cars stretching all the way to the freeway


The place was a madhouse and would only get more crowded as it got toward noon. Most of the crush was the line to get players cards which stretched and snaked around like it was for space mountain.


The poker room is conveniently located straight down to the right from the main entrance and close to the path to the parking garage. As would be expected they made sure to create a comfortable and spacious room. At 9:30 there was already a 2/5nl game going and the 2nd one started at 10:30.

This is how things looked at 10am


By noon all tables were going. Other than the two 2/5's there were several 1/3nl running with a lengthy list. Long list for the many 3/6 hold 'em. There was also 4/8 limit, 4/8 Omaha, and a list going for PLO. I was told that they basically spread anything if there was enough interest. There was a lot of staff on hand to keep things moving. There is a slight learning curve, but will not be a long term issue. Management is apparently eager to hear all suggestions from players, so hopefully will be willing to make changes when necessary.



the one item that might cause grumbling is that they do drink service only at tables. Players get 30 minutes to order from the food court or wherever and they can bring it back in.
Comps are $1/hr.
They do run a BBJP that starts at $10k. Bad beat starts at quad 10's or better, but if it is not hit in two weeks it will drop to quad 9's, then quad 8's, etc. Not sure if it goes lower than four 2's.

2/5 is 100-1000
1/3 is 50-500

There were some familiar faces from the 101 in Petaluma, but still more new faces at the tables. time will tell if the player pool will be sustained or if this is just the excitement of it all.

Thanks for the TR. Good to know the buy-in limits.

So Graton is doing a drop not a % of the pot for rake?
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FYI - the 5/10 game at Graton is uncapped

Graton room crazy tonight? Looks that way in Bravo. Very long lists for all games.

I found Graton to be a top-notch room, for a room that was open three days. I ventured the 2 hour drive Friday, played for four hours, got a chance to talk with Greg S., newly hired PR manager. Games played: 1-3 NL, 4-8 O/8 HK, and 4-8 limit HK.
Players are fairly solid. It appears, and from what I've heard, they are putting a big dent into the 101 Casino/cardroom, to the extent that on a Thursday afternoon, I heard (overheard) they had no NL game going. Whatever that means, I've never been, a lot of you have.
The O/8 game ran, filled, had a list, and then all of a sudden, at 100pm, failed. It didn't bother me, since I tripled up in the 90 minutes it went, but I found that strange. Stranger still is you must be careful how you sign up for the game, the desk will put people into 4/8 Omaha H/L, and then start a second list for 4/8 Omaha H/L Kill. huh?. OK, so they have two games loaded in the Bravo system, and the desk people will randomly put you in one or the other. I had a nice conversation with one of the desk managers at one point, and sort of straightened her out for the time, saying no one wants a straight game w/out kill, and the room should use on e or the other, not both.
Agree with other posters that the room needs to offer just one type of 4/8 limit game. They are offering straight, half-kill and full-kill. Lord. stop it. Just one. I'd advise a half-kill for all 4-8 for the time being, and let it sort out. The no kill players have plenty to play at 3-6, there were 4 tables going at 200pm Friday.
Greg came out and we chatted for 15 minutes. He's real happy so far with the room, the employees and the turnout. The uniforms look nice, the room is very well appointed, service is quite OK for a new room. My one concern, which I did not lay on him, was that he did not have Bravo at the Eldorado where he came from, and I hope the learning curve is quicker than some other rooms implementing it. Since the room is new, and a lot of floors/dealers have come from places that have it, this will work out quickly, one can hope. But- the aforementioned overlisting of offered games, no place to self-swipe in, they call people to a game that have obviously called in, they do not list an active player on a list for another game as active (your name, 14,3), meaning you are at table 14, seat 3, and then blast the microphone calling your name when you are ten feet in front of them on table 14, seat 3. little stuff. it wil work out.
Food choices- plenty, and plenty busy. Great food court, great dining choices, Did not eat.
Decor- the picture above is a very good representation of the colors used for chairs, tables etc. A prior posting somewhere made it look like Lakers/ Vikings colors, gold and purple. That photo is horribly overexpeosed. (lifted from Facebook?) True colors are Deep Royal Blue and Desert Sand, very nice.
Players card- massive line at Players Center to the left of Food Court.
GO TO THE EVENT CENTER. Same amount of people working, 75% less people in line.
Traffic, tons- a massive casino just off one of the worst trafficked highways in America. Good luck

Great trip report Dave, thanks

Apparently. Which sucks. Their low-limit NL would have a big edge over all other bay area NL if they took a rake.

Yeah, saw this happening again today (Saturday, around 2pm). I live in Petaluma, and the wife and I went south one city to take the dog to a park, and 101 North was backed up presumably from Rohnert Park all the way down to mid-Novato. 101 N is often backed up even on weekend afternoons for some reason I've never been able to identify, but today it was definitely worse, probably because of the casino's first live weekend.

The trick is to get there while avoiding 101. There are two alternate routes that we've used when trying to get to RP or Santa Rosa during commute hours. Both add a bit of distance to the drive, but will avoid the major traffic backups. I've never actually timed these to see if they ARE faster than just sitting in the traffic, but they're certainly less frustrating.

The first (when 101 is backed up into Novato):
1. 101 North (obviously, skip this step if coming from Vallejo/I-80)
2. In Novato, take CA-37 East (towards Vallejo. If you're coming from Vallejo/I-80 you'll be taking CA-37 West towards San Rafael)
3. Turn at Lakeville Highway towards Petaluma (left if currently heading East, right if heading West)
4. Turn Right at Frates Rd. (the first light you come to after turning onto Lakeville)
5. Turn Left at Adobe Rd.
6. Turn Right at Petaluma Hill Rd.
7. Turn Left at Rohnert Park Expy
8. Turn Right at Snyder Lane
9. Turn Left at Golf Course Dr.
10. Follow Golf Course Dr. to Graton Casino (you will cross 101 on the way)

The second (when it does not back up until Petaluma):
1. 101 North
2. Exit at Petaluma Blvd North (the same exist as the 101 Casino); go West (across 101)
3. Turn Right on Stony Point Rd.
4. Turn Right on Wilfred Ave.
5. Wilfred Ave. becomes Golf Course Dr., passes Graton Casino (will not cross 101)

Couple of extremely hot chicks playing 2-5 at Graton right now. Lol. Both seem to be taken.

Graton has been packed all weekend. Haven't seen a poker room this busy in norcal ever. ^ Sucked out on milf everyone has been after. She is pretty fit.

How has it been on weeknights? Still super packed? I just downloaded this Bravo app and it currently says the 1/3 NL waiting list is 74 people deep...lol, so not worth it

Hey, thanks for this. I used to live in Petaluma so I knew about 37 to Lakeville but I didn't know about the other.

I posted this on r/poker but, my graton TR:


I went to play 1/3 at Graton on Sunday night. Newish to Bay Area and had only played at lucky chances before. It was about 40min drive from mill valley (about same as LC) and no traffic on Sunday evening. Bravo poker app said 30+ waiting so I called ahead and put my name on list. Many signs clearly marking casino from highway and pretty close to the exit.
Casino is very large and quite nice. Seemed to be lots of nice restaurants, food court with lots of options, lots of table games and slots. Smoke wasn't obnoxious but could be the newness, several non smoking gaming areas too.


I got to poker room was about 8th on the list, I checked in at the desk and was told I could leave my cell number and they would text me. Took about 20 min to get the text and was seated quickly after. Note: they were quick to accomodate callins and seemed to have a seating preference for them (pure speculation). Room is spacious, new leather cushioned chairs, new felts and rails, and auto shufflers on each table. When I arrived all 18 tables were in use, mostly 1/3,2/5 and 3/6 or 4/8 limit (not sure).

Dealers were very good on average, recognized a couple from LC, we joke how much less soulless this place seemed in comparison. Had a great vibe to the room, a good amount of action in the games, and a quick to respond floor. My first table had a few stickerlers for the rules with a very short "call the floor" instinct. I used to play for a living 5+ years ago, so I'm quite familiar with the rules and had a few chuckles at the angry nits and their constant whining about technicalities.

Overall I played at 3 different tables, after taking some breaks, and found a lot of really good action. A few guys that knew what they were doing, a few too tight old guys, and a good mix of recreational player/gamblers. More talk at the tables than I had heard in my 5ish lucky chances sessions combined. I would definitely recommend checking out the action.

I lost a good sized pot early, but thanks to playing 4 handed early in the morning, ended up making about 400 profit.

A few hands. I raise utg KK to 10 (most people opening 8 or 10 despite being 1/3), btn calls, old man in bb makes it $25 to go, I call btn fold. Flop 347r check check. Turn T he 20 I call. River 9 he 50 I call, His AA good.

4 handed with 1 fish and 2 rocks, fish opens to 13, I call JT in sb, bb calls. Flop A23, checked Around Turn Q I bet 20, fish calls River K fish checks out of turn, I bet $50, he asks how much I have (200ish more) and says "I'll put you allin". I did the pro move doubled check to make sure you have the nuts and call. His AQ no good.

Fast talking guy joins 4 handed game and limps, i call K3s on btn, bb checks. Flop KT2 checks to me, I bet 3, new guy tosses stack of chips out ($30) I call. Turn Q check check, river 5 he bets 70 quickly and starts breathing hard. Cute. I call, A2 no good.

Anyway, fun times, clean room, competent dealers, lots of chips in play and no flop no drop. Would recommend.


Edit for drop:
4 handed 1+1 drop once flop
5 handed 2+1
6 handed 3+1
7+ handed 4+1

pretty sure the m8trix had to turn away people and lists were like 200 people deep when they opened, people love new crap.

I might be moving to the Bay area, and I read that no limit games are illegal in some poker rooms here. Which poker rooms have no limit in this area?

Illegal in CA? I do not know of such a thing.
NL in San Jose, SF, East Bay, and North Bay.

Technically, Oaks in the east bay has spread limit with big spreads. NL is illegal in the city of Emeryville so it's a work around.

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I was there last night and I compared my Bravo App to the actual waiting list and it's way off for some reason. I never had a chance to ask how often its updated. I assumed it was in real time. For the 1/3nl at like 11 last night was 91 deep, but on Bravo it showed much less.

Hey guys,

I know it's been mentioned and scattered throughout the post but would anyone mind giving me a list of casinos that offer NLHE?

I just got back to Oakland today. I've never played in the bay before and generally play either 2-5 or 5-5. But I'm used to playing super deep. I just came from living in the east where a buyin of 200bb or even 400bb in a 2-5 isn't uncommon. I know 5-10 is generally uncapped but that's a little big for me. Also if anyone wants to meet up for lunch or whatever I could use some new friends in town.

Have you looked at the first post in this thread yet?