You hit the nail on the head. I hate the smoke at Thunder and maybe this will finally light a fire under their backsides to close in the poker room to eliminate all of the smoke during their big tournament series that they run. Stones now has enough table to possibly host a national tournament, but they would need multiple Day 1's to accommodate a larger crowd. Anyone know how many tables they have exactly in the poker room?

^ off memory I think 16, but I believe they should be licensed for 17.

Yeah the smoke at TV is pretty terrible. I have played there since I picked up the game last year, but the smoke turns me off. I feel like I have smoked a couple of cartons every time a play a long session. Don't get why they just don't enclose it. If not why even bother making it non smoking, what differences does it make?

17 tables are set up in the poker room but we started with a provisional license that only allows us to open 15 right now. My understanding at this moment is that sometime late August or early September we will have the license to open the last 2!

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Haven't been to stones yet but July 4-5 probably not good for comparison. I was in Vegas but think thunder had about 1,000 people playing tournaments those days so no limit Omaha hi lo game understandable.

Cash player mainly

Thanks for the info. I was a little confused by the whole card room concept but I think I get it now. Definitely will check out when I'm there as I will be there on business in about two weeks

I saw several Thunder Valley Limit Omaha Hi-Lo regulars at Stones on July 13.

I am assuming that those regulars have moved onto Stones in the short term.

--

Some of the daily 11am no limit tournament regulars from Thunder have also switched to the daily 10am no limit tournament at Stones, presumably because Stones 1) offers better structures, and 2) is at a more convenient location for most players who live in the valley.

Regular no-limit tournament comparison between Stones and Thunder:

Stones M-F 10am, Su 11am (except last Sunday), Tu 6:30pm, F 6:30pm - $55 buy-in ($45+5+5), 10000 chips, 20-minute levels ($225 seat added except on F 6:30pm)
Stones Sa 11am - $125 buy-in ($105+10+10), 15000 chips, 30-minute levels ($10K guarantee prize pool)
Stones Last Su 11am - $225 buy-in ($195+15+15), 15000 chips, 40-minute levels ($20K guarantee prize pool)

Thunder M-Th 11am - $40 buy-in ($30+7+3), 6000 chips, 15-minute levels.
Thunder F,Su 11am - $60 buy-in ($45+12+3), 6000 chips, 20-minute levels
Thunder Sa 11am (except 1st Saturday) - $75 buy-in ($60+12+3), 10000 chips, 20-minute levels
Thunder F, Sa 5pm - $125 buy-in ($100+20+5), 10000 chips, 20-minute levels
Thunder Su 7pm - $100 buy-in ($58+14+3, $25 bounty), 6000 chips, 20-minute levels
Thunder First Sa 11am - $300 buy-in ($261+30+9), 15000 chips, 30-minute levels ($40K guarantee prize pool)
Thunder M 7pm - $20 buy-in ($10+7+3) for 1000 chips, $10 rebuy ($8+2+0) for 1000 chips, $10 add-on for 2000 chips ($8+2+0), 15-minute levels

Stones is superior to Thunder in every metric, with the probable exception of the $300 buy-in at Thunder.

The Sacramento market is segmented in the following ways:

Capitol Casino (downtown Sacramento): up to 10-11 poker tables will be in use (the rest are black jack, baccarat, double-hand poker) specializes in Limit Hold'em (4-8 and 8-16, both with 1/2 kill) and Limit Omaha Hi-Lo (4-8 with 1/2 kill every day starting no later than 9am, 8-16 with 1/2 kill on Mondays, 6-12 with full kill on Wednesdays). Limit Omaha Hi-Lo is by far the most popular game at Capitol. Capitol also offers 1-3 and 2-5 no limit, but usually no more than 4 tables total.

Casino Royale (inside Red Lion Hotel Woodlake): Limit 4-8 Omaha is mostly populated by props during the day. One or two $1-2 no-limit games at night. Most players left in February 2013 after a tournament chip palming scandal. Players in the know have boycotted Royale ever since.

Stones Gambling Hall - The Saloon (Citrus Heights): licensed for a maximum of 15 poker tables. Specializes in No-Limit Hold'em, with $1-2 ($200 max buy-in), $1-3 ($500 max buy-in), and $2-5. Limit Omaha Hi-Lo 4-8 with 1/2 kill spread on demand if players were to show up.

Thunder Valley (Lincoln): an indian casino with a 24-table poker room (plus up to 10 additional temporary tables without shuffling machines for major tournaments). Most cash game action tend to take place on Friday and Saturday evenings. No Limit $1-3 ($300 max buy-in), $2-5 ($1000 max buy-in), and $5-5. Limit Hold'em 3-6 (with or without kill, depending on player preference) and 4-8 (with full kill). Limit Omaha Hi-Lo 4-8 with 1/2 kill (rarely spread, only on some Fridays and Saturdays.)

I don't know too much about smaller card rooms such as Cordova or Folsom Lake Bowl, as I don't stray too far from Interstate 80.

By now, Capitol Casino owner Clarke Rosa should be aware of all the customer complaints (to several floormen) regarding the flimsy Top Notch PVC cards that were introduced last week (as replacement for the Copag cards).

The issues:

Finger marks
Shuffling machine marks
Paint chipping off

Capitol is stuck with boxes and boxes of Top Notch PVC cards until they all wear out. At this rate, those cards can't wear out fast enough.

The tournament schedule looks good for Stones. Which tournaments have ante structures? Thanks

Thunder2/5 is $100-$500 not $1k

And why does stones not have bravo??

Because they don't give any comps. They plan on launching their own app "soon"

Ante Structures play every Saturday at 11am and the last Sunday of every month at 11am.

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Checked out stones yesterday. Big crowds but never waited long to get seated. 40% off food for now. Awesome food and pizza.

Only negative experience was the tournament that couldn't seat everyone. This was a problem at the last location and looks like it will continue to be an issue. I understand the business perspective. Very few places will force quit cash games to open seats for a tournament but a tournaments value is heavily dictated by how many entries it has. Nothing worse than having 60 buy ins kept out of the prize pool because of space.

Also having one re-entry available would be nice but with the limited seating you can't fire a second bullet for now. Maybe when things slow down more tables will be available.

Other than that very nice place and Cash games were very good.

Fyi last night we got all but 5 alternates into the tournament. We had a total of 105 players. We paid 12 spots. First place was $1325 plus the $225 seat added by the casino for our last Sunday event. I feel like that's a pretty good value for a $55 buy in.

You are correct that we don't break cash games to start tournament tables but we do open every table available. Typically the only time we don't always get everyone in is on Tuesday and Friday evenings when the cash games are really busy.

The am tournaments have been getting about 80-120 players and we have not been having any issues with getting the entire list in.

Btw, we do allow one re entry per event. We believe that unlimited re entries degrades the integrity of the tournament. Our structures, rules and procedures are geared towards protecting the integrity of the tournaments and the quality of the player experience.



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I was one of the 5 that didn't get in, probably saved me $55.

That's unfortunate, I love having people like er7eman fire $800 worth in bullets into the prize pool

Very good player experience as anyone with half a brain loves the action instead of hates it and starts salivating

HU4sushiRollz norcaljew?

HU tournament next Monday?

Sure, in Vegas

Where?

Couple thoughts/questions.

Your response to the 1 re entry leads me to believe I wasn't clear. I know you do "allow" one re entry and I like that idea. I wish more places did that. (Limited to 1) especially in the larger buy in events. And I agree it makes for a better event when re entries are not unlimited. For example the $1,650 hpt is unlimited and I hate that.

But you do realize that zero players were able to take that 1 re entry option???

At the 3rd level there were 20+ on the waiting list and I talked to a handful of people who saw the list and decided not to sign up when it was that deep. Add to that about 20% that would probably re enter if available that's at least 45 or more. If no wait list I expect 150 easily seated. But I'm not complaining just pointing out observations. If you ask your cage I am sure they had a dozen or more players ask about wait list and then not sign up. so to say all but 5 got in is a little optimistic.

The Tuesday night event used to be $70 or $75. Numbers declined and they dropped the buy in to $55 and numbers went back up. I wonder if it's not time to test the market again and go back to a $75 buy in on Tuesdays. Supply and demand would point towards that direction. Even if you got 20-30 less players all seats would still be full and someone could fire a second bullet if needed if the wait list wasn't 20 deep.

Just as limiting the re entry to 1 changes play so does not having the option when there is a long list. I won't take flips early because if I miss I am done for the night.

Just my thoughts. Increase prize pool and still max out the tables if buy in goes up and if a few players back out there is more room for re entries.

Puts 1st about $2,250 for a $75 buy in.

Hit up Stones this afternoon/early evening and it was pretty sweet IMO. Maybe it's just a breath of fresh air idk. It's like if limelight and thunder had a baby.

Plenty of great points here. Because we are limited by our license we unfortunately don't have the ability to just keep adding tables. So far we really only have this issue with our two evening tournaments. We may need to re-examine it as we grow.

Morning tournaments allow everyone to fire the second bullet currently. Remember that this is just or lead out schedule. This program will be developed and it will evolve. We are gauging player response right now and will develop it further.

I think the idea for a bigger buy in on Tuesday nights, is a great one! We also have some great holiday events planned!
Thanks again for the feedback!



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