Well I am definitely interested in checking RA out. I am however concerned with the rake given that it is so much more. I have played lower stakes 4/8 and 6/12 at cp and feel the rake is a huge factor in winrate. I hope that RA changes its rake to compete with cp.

The stud forum covers fixed-limit, spread-limit, and pot-limit, although at least 97-98% of the posts are for fixed-limit games. It also covers stud, stud/8, and razz. They won't split that forum, and I'm pretty sure that there are more fixed-limit high-only stud games than spread-limit hold'em games. I find it highly unlikely that there will be a separate spread-limit forum any time soon.

I imagine that the $30/60 action will gravitate to one room or the other eventually. CP's $30/60 game wasn't nearly as strong as it used to be even before RA came along. I just don't see both rooms having a nightly $30/60 game. The game will land wherever the producers want to play.

MitchL said the same thing earlier. and so far, you both seem to be right - which is puzzling to me. why is it that the vast majority of 30 players have to be regulars? i don't understand why there aren't more once-a-month players who come in and play 30. you'd think that the biggest game would attract more casual players than the second biggest game (15)- but that just doesn't seem to be true.

There are certainly recreational players who come to play every once in a blue moon or even regularly, but my guess is that there just arent enough of them. There is also a contingent of break even or marginal winners who play in that game, but its hard to get everyone in one place at one time. The Twin Cities is not a large market and I am continually surprised by the amount of regular action that Cbury was able to get compared to other much larger cities in the midwest.

We have interesting phenomenon at the Oaks here in the Bay Area. This club is one of the oldest in California and located in one of the poorer sections near Oakland. I think there are like 25 tables or something and the 30 game here is healthier than the 15 as of late and we get a game going everyday and lately 2 games more often than not. We get a mix of super wealthy businessmen (dime a dozen in the bay area) and poor shot taking-short stackers with only a few pro/2p2ers. This makes for an extremely healthy game, because the only people that can go broke are struggling mediocre pros or the shortstaking shottakers, but as long as there is poker or gambling there will be shortstackers so with no middling income players needed to support is really never in jeopardy.

I am jealous...all we have here is the rich football star....sigh. And I heard he hasn't been around for a while either.

I just hope the regulars don't want to play 5-60 spread. Please please please play 30/60 instead.

I've only been to RA once (played limit when I went), but the spread-limit games there sound like they have real potential. I'm now on my fifth reading of SSHE and I should probably read TOP agin before trying spread-limit. I'm probably ready to tackle the Stoxtrader/Zobags book, anybody know if it mentions spread-limit or is it strictly limit?

I got a private message about my encouragement to play 30/60 vs 5-60 and I'll elaborate a little really quickly.

First of all, there is a significant difference between the 2-10 and 4-20 games than the 5-60. The difference is in the 2-10/4-20 there is a 5x bigger choice than the min, or the big blind and in 5-60 it's 12x. The former games will basically just play pretty close to a 10/10 limit and a 20/20 limit as most of the time a raise will be to the max. I'm not sure of the speed of these games as I have not played them but I can imagine they're a bit slower, albeit not as noticeable as at 5-60.

At 5-60 every decision took notably longer and was far more thought out than just throwing chips in like you do in limit. It was as if your brain was somehow tricked into thinking that because the person 'max bet' that more thought should be given and the game slowed to probably 60% of the speed of a normal limit game and played a lot more thoughtfully and less recklessly. It's like making no limit decisions on a non-no-limit game. I think it's just a subtle thing our brain does when somebody seemingly makes a choice to bet 60 over just betting like in limit, which happens to have to be 60. Everyone kind of tightens up and loses the gambling atmosphere. There was a very loose gambooler up there and in a fantastic mood, and he was folding much more than he does in a limit game.

Even though percentage wise a pro might have a larger edge, both he and the house are going to be making less money because there are so many fewer hands being played.

Personally I'd rather play 8/16 lhe than 5-60 spread and if it comes down to it I probably will. That or 15/30 or some other mixed games...but 5-60 spread is just painful and not good for anyone.

We have one of those too, but he comes in like 2 week spurts loses 20k and then quits for a couple of months. The only time he ever won was when vmacosta played props with him just to get him to stay to play sh. I here ya'lls football guy is like 95% vpip.

Does anyone know if they have a bus/shuttle service to get to this club? I live in downtown Minneapolis and I don't drive.

Thanks,
Browser72

In general I definitely agree with you here. What it comes down to imo is that with a 5-60 game I don't think you necessarilly get a crowd that would normally be playing a 30-60 game. The 5-60 crowd, from my experience, is more the type that views it as a warped 2-5NL game which would explain why they take so much time on decisions. To these players a 60 dollar bet may actually feel like tough amount of money to call as it might be a lot of money to them. I mean if your a 2-5 grinder you probably have like 5-15k bankroll where if your a 30-60 grinder you probably have 20-60k roll. This dramatically changes your comfort level betting calling and raising 60 at a time.

The other illustration of why spread games play a bit different can be shown in this example. We're in a 5-60 game and all 9 players limp for 5 dollars. We now have a 45 dollar pot. Lets say the sb then leads the flop for 30$ which would be a reasonable bet in this size pot. The pot is laying only 75-30 or 2.5-1.

Change that example to a 30-60 game. The field limps 9X30 = 270. The sb bets laying 300-30 or 10-1 to the field. This is much different no?

The small antes of spread limit games make it much more correct to play tight and they encourage nittiness. As a good player on a loose game this fact can make your variance low and winrate high but god damnit when it's a tight game spread limit is one of the most boring forms of poker.

Just my opinion on the spread limit thing.

so 5-60 is just a much smaller, slower game basically, makes sense why bk would hate it, and also why i would hate it, but why it could be somewhat interesting to some.

on another note are draw games illegal in MN? i thought i remembered hearing that at some point in the past (like 2-7 triple draw/etc)

what games are these places actually sanctioned to offer.

i know for sure:

holdem, o8, stud8, stud hi

ive heard:
pineapple, crazy pineapple, would imagine like fixed limit omaha would too.

wondering out of curiousity

While this is all well and good, a simple "Because spread limit is just so fantastically stupid. That's why." would have been just fine.

And you get all worked up when people make dismissive posts about fixed limit.

Yeah, but I mean spread limit has always been a joke. People who make fun of limit are not usually respected poker players and give bad reasons for why they think NL is better. Limit is an entrenched game spread everywhere and there are players who have made truckloads of money playing it. You will pretty much never find spread limit anywhere No Limit is legal, you cant find it anywhere online and I dont know one spread limit pro who is known on this board or outside of his own casino. Its essentially NL with training wheels.

whats so bad about it ?? I play 2-10 and 4-20 at my local card club and I like it just fine.

also, why can't i find any strategy information on spread holdem games ??

it's pot limit's opposite, relative to NL. you're able to overbet preflop, but the late street bets are small. i don't have anything against the game - but it is boring - and there really isn't much need for a book. if you have an understanding of general poker concepts it is the easiest format to get right on your first try. it's not my favorite, personally - but it's a format that some of my friends who are slight losers in LHE and NLHE can probably beat - since there is less of a difference between "OK play" and "good play",while still potential for bad players to play very bad

Because there are very few games and the strategy differences between spread-limit and fixed-limit aren't that great. Spread-limit is actually very common for live, low-limit stud games, and none of the literature addresses the differences.

A lot of times doesn't 2-10 spread play similar to 5-10 limit?

I was there on Thursday night and the attendance was very light.

Played in a 2-20 Spread game that was never full (there was, however, another one going) and eventually broke....then moved to the 8/16 that was 5 handed after I got there.

How has the attendance at C-bury for the past few weeks been?

I believe the poster "nate" did a strategy post on spread limit holdem in this forum

they are no longer spreading 5-30 and 5-60. the only spread games that are gonna be in play are the 2-10 4-20 and the simulated 1-2 no limit game the 2-60 spread with a maximum buy in of 200 dollars.

I can verify this. I was there last night and I was completely floored when he told me this rule (not that I had any intention of playing 5-60, but still). We even talked to the floor guy and he said that the players wanted it to be more like TL 1-2 and that's the reason for the change.

I guess one good thing that will come out of this is that we won't lose any 30-60 players to the spread game now.

i think this is something you should be very happy about

Once I got over how stupid of an idea it is to cap a spread game I was happy about it.