Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Venues & Communities Discussion of live, legal poker venues, and discussion among players in live poker "neighborhoods."

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2012, 11:51 AM   #101
FourthWin
grinder
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 461
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

There's a rumor floating around that dealers can't take tokes from "real" chips, and that players have to buy special toke chips? Any truth to it?
FourthWin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 12:42 PM   #102
FoldJJ
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by FourthWin View Post
There's a rumor floating around that dealers can't take tokes from "real" chips, and that players have to buy special toke chips? Any truth to it?
I was there Monday and they take normal chips. Cocktail waitress must change your chips into cash if you want to pay for alcohol with chips. Silly Ohio liquor laws.
FoldJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 01:13 PM   #103
JKobak
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoldJJ View Post
I was there Monday and they take normal chips. Cocktail waitress must change your chips into cash if you want to pay for alcohol with chips. Silly Ohio liquor laws.
Played yesterday and paid with chips.
JKobak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 02:38 PM   #104
letang8k
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

-Played there yesterday and had a decent experience. Dealer trays and chip runners slowed the game down for sure, but the tables and room were spacious.

-Dealers all said that wsop circuit events would be played at the Q so that cash games could still be played in the casino.

-Go to the entrance inside Tower City as the line is much quicker. I was also able to get a total rewards card while in line.

Lots of 1/2 nl and 2/5 nl yesterday. Also had a few tables of 1/2 plo and 2/5 plo going. They said the highest they've had going is 5/10 so far but there was a list for 10/25 nl.
letang8k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 02:58 PM   #105
cbayly12
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 886
Cam anyone tell me what the max buyin for 1/2, 2/5, and 5/10 are?
cbayly12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 03:29 PM   #106
apology7
grinder
 
apology7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ridin' the wave of variance, man
Posts: 547
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbayly12 View Post
Cam anyone tell me what the max buyin for 1/2, 2/5, and 5/10 are?
1/2 = $200
2/5 = $500
5/10 = $1,500
10/25 = (if it ever goes off) I think is no max
apology7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 03:41 PM   #107
cap217
veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pushing Strings and Pulling Buttons
Posts: 3,150
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apology7 View Post
1/2 = $200
2/5 = $500
5/10 = $1,500
10/25 = (if it ever goes off) I think is no max
are you sure the 5/10 had a 1500 cap? Not saying you are wrong but I was told no cap.
cap217 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 03:51 PM   #108
Aesah
Concept of the Week Author
 
Aesah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,618
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

5/10 is 1500 cap
Aesah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 04:02 PM   #109
KyddDynamite
veteran
 
KyddDynamite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,464
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
wat other casino is there?
Rivers, Charlestown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cap217 View Post
5/10NL did run and as you can imagine, was a solid line up. I could only see 2 "fish" there and they werent horrible fish at all. Also 2 new faces I have never seen in a poker room before but they were younger and playing 5/10 so I would assume they were solid.

About the $0.25/hour for comps... ??? I didnt hear anything about comps at all. This sounds horrible and like its a joke but it can be true.
I started the $5/$10 and played in it all night, I thought the lineup was pretty soft. At least five solid fish, and only one player I would say was pretty good. The other two players were just nits.

Confirmed that the rake is $8 a half hour for the $5/$10 which is $2 higher than standard.

Ok my review...

BAD
Rake
Most places are $6 a half hour for $5/$10 and $8 a half hour for $25/$50. Horseshoe charged a rake rate that is standard for a game five times as big. The rake was made even worse by how slow the dealers were in a timed game. To the floors credit though, they gave us a free half our once, but we were still grossly overcharged in rake.
As bad as that rake was, the 200nl rake is an outrage. They need to change it to $1/$3, or change the buy-in rules for people to be able to beat the game. The game caters to fish who just want to socialize and pass money around (which is good business for the casino) but when the fish dry up in a few months, like they always do, all the regulars who won't pay that outrageous rake will have already found another place they feel comfortable playing at, and won't return to a place that has been trying to rape them when the games were good even if they reduce the rake.

Comps
The comps are a complete joke. I can go to Borgata and literally get eight times the comp rate. I didn't eat, but if I was eating I would want to eat at a casino for free since I spend my entire day inside it playing. It costs me $160 in rake to play for 10 hours, and what do I get? $2.50... and that's IF they would have swiped my card in right away, but they didn't and I got $1.75.
That's how you treat your customers? I started $5/$10 game (first guy on the list and I got three people from my $2/$5 game to come over and play so we could start a game) and I get comped less than the change most people have in their couch.
$1440 got raked from that game and assuming everyone swiped in (which they didn't) the total comps were $22.50. At most casinos these numbers would be $1,080 and $90. So they're raking 33% more than a standard rake, and shafting players with 75% less then a standard normal comp.

The Dealers
Very slow very confused.

The Cage
See The Dealers.

The Cocktail Servers
C'mon man.

The Floor
The PA system was complete trash. I can't hear my name or the game being called even when I'm right next to the front desk. That causes games that are ready to never start too because no one knows they're ready.

Enough Gloom, onto the good things about the room...

GOOD
Room Quality
The room is well built. I liked how they had bigger games to the right, the cage in a good location, and a close bathroom. The table size is great, and the chairs are fine imo. The pictures on the wall are a nice touch, and the amount of TVs and their location is well played. I also like the color of the room, which I never really thought much about until I played at the Meadows where the room looks dirty to me because of the colors.

The Dealers
Didn't have a single dealer who wasn't friendly and smiling. They also seemed to be more strict with the rules ( if they knew them) and treat the game like less of a home game and more of a casino.

The Floor
The floor knew what they were doing. They were on top of things, making up for other peoples mistakes. Unfortunately, they were rather busy, being that there were lots of mistakes being made - understandably so. They listened to players and did their best to be fair and cater to their needs. Under this management the room will be well run sooner rather than later.

Overall this is not a casino I would recommend to a poker player of any skill level playing any stake under the assumption that they are trying to win money. The high rake and short stack buy-in rules will kill your winrate. Alongside that, I haven't checked the prices on the food menus, but I can promise you that you will be paying them out of pocket the vast majority of the time. Even when all the service gets to its peak performance, these factors make the room unplayable imho. I would suggest driving the extra distance to play at another casino if you are playing a long enough session.
KyddDynamite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 04:30 PM   #110
cardking303
journeyman
 
cardking303's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 201
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Bravo shows 7 on the list for 50-100nl..
cardking303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 04:37 PM   #111
KyddDynamite
veteran
 
KyddDynamite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,464
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

$1,500 max at $5/$10.
KyddDynamite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 05:33 PM   #112
72winner
adept
 
72winner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,078
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

If Jeremy is reading this, #1 problem- dealers who chat with customers before they even deal the hand. Cards siting in front of them. This should NEVER happen.

#2 Someone there needs comping authority. I needed to cash an ATM slip and spent over an HOUR because nobody could get the printer running. Fair enough the room is new, but in that HOUR (after a total fish had sucked out on me and I was urgently trying to get back to win my chips back!) the printer never worked, I was told to go downstairs. They said I had already picked up the money, which really pissed me off. OK for things not to work, but if you're going to comp me $399 Ritz rooms to play you need to have someone authorized to comp me a piece of pizza while you try to figure out how to give me my money, lol.

Drink service alternated from non-existent to amazing. Location matters. servers need to get to the back of the room more.

Not having a drinking fountain irritated me. OK for servers to be slow but not OK to have nowhere to get a sip of water.

I was told it's not "no flop no drop". Multiple dealers said it was $10+ pot get raked regardless.

Rules unevenly applied on selling chips. Sometimes it was "all first buyins need to be bought at cage". Then one dealer spent MOST of her DOWN selling first buyins to 4 players, including needing a refill of her rack to be able to sell to them (WTF?) Need to be consistent- first BI OK at cage, but then need to be able to sell at table.

Nice room, spacious tables (big tables, only 9 seats). Was hard for dealers to pull in chips as tables so large.

.25 comps confirmed. (lol)

Got comped at Ritz but almost got stuck paying for parking. If you get hotel, you need to drop bags off at hotel and park in Casino parking (at this time). Otherwise you get $30/day (or whatever) parking charge.

Ritz was nice. Pool closes at 10 which is very silly for a casino-affiliated hotel. Has nice jacuzzi, sauna, steam room etc. Very cool.

Lots of Nautica regs at my tables. Some total fish. Worst was one guy who doubled up off me a second time with miracle hand. IMMEDIATELY got up and left. Would not play one more hand.

It's VERY important to try and establish that "hit and run" is not cool. Otherwise fish will go eat a piece of pizza, rathole $600 and come back with $80 lol.

Dealers were very nice. Customer service was great (other than no comping authority and the dealers chatting and not dealing)..

Pooled tips is a disaster. I specifically didn't tip good dealers more as there is no point. You got 30% less tips from me because of tip pooling. I thought about boycotting tipping entirely as it's a broken system.

I was told that Shoe CLE dealers were "guinea pigs" for the tip sharing. I reminded dealer of what happens to guinea pigs i the lab. It usually does not end well.

It may be something to think about organizing a boycott of poker room tips to protest the tip sharing. It would hurt dealers some in the short term but in the long term will mean more for them and a better poker room.

This is probably the biggest issue in the room as some dealers were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO slow, and some were decent. With no incentive to improve the room will really be terrible. Unless you just fire the folks who are slow, but that opens up a world of hassles. Broken system. Say the guinea pigs are ill, and let upper mgmt know before they die.

I may go with a button next time that says "no more tips until I can tip MY dealer!"
72winner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 08:40 PM   #113
BADUU
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 483
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
I would suggest driving the extra distance to play at another casino if you are playing a long enough session.
Not sure where that would be if you want to play 2/5 or higher.
The Rivers? Presq Isle? Wheeling? Meadows? Mountaineer? None of them have these games.

I guess if you have time to drive 6 hours to Borgata, or the Parx, you are in business.
BADUU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 08:51 PM   #114
BADUU
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 483
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Awesome hand at my table last night, crazy action.
$10 straddle, UTG mins to $20, UTG +1 makes it $40. Four callers back to UTG, who now makes it $140.
4 of the 5 players call a hundo, and their is $700+ in the pot before the flop.

Flop A-K-Q rainbow. BB jams for $185. UTG calls. UTG+1 goes allin for $400 and change. 2 others fold, and back to UTG who calls, and rolls over top set.

Nothing like having AA, getting 4 callers at $140, and making your hand. LMFAO.
BADUU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 09:00 PM   #115
syxxpac914
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 41
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Played 24 of the first 48 hours in various games. This is my impression so far. I will preface this with the following, I don't think any real fair judgement can be levied on this room until after the weekend games have been experienced and the influx of people coming to "feast" on a new location is gone.

I am a big fan of the room, aesthetically it's the best around. The tables are big, leaving plenty of room for everyone. The chairs are comfortable, however it'd be better if they were on wheels and adjustable, I'm around 5'11" but I felt like I was sitting a little low compared to the table height. The drink service I experienced was incredible, ordered a red bull and got it within a minute, no exaggeration. The floor was excellent, a few seemed a little overwhelmed, but i general they did a great job. Jeremy is very friendly and accessible when in the room, the two times the floor had to make a ruling at my table they made it quickly, confidently, and were happy to explain their ruling politely.

Dealers... if you came into this casino expecting Aria quality dealers, you're delusional and need to be committed. The dealers that dealt $2/$5 and PLO weren't bad and some of them were even good. Very few dealers had a problem calculating the pot which gets 5 Stars in my book because there are dealers in casinos that spread this game regularly at various stakes that still struggle to calculate the pot. (I'm talking regional and the major casinos like Aria/Borgata). Compared to when Mountaineer brought the first poker room to this region the dealers are way ahead of the curve. The Mountaineer experience initially was horrible, I saw a dealer take two exposed cards from a player and make them part of the flop. Cleveland has some dealers who will eventually become very good. A big problem in that room is that their dealer chairs don't seem to adjust, which seems minute but if anyone has ever dealt you know that you need to sit as high as you're comfortable with in order to make it easier for you reach chips etc. (Please, no rebuttals about the Rivers opening, everyone is aware that the best dealers from Mountaineer went there). All in all for what I had prepared myself for the dealers were acceptable outside of a few who felt that when they saw someone they knew that they should engage them in conversation for the duration of their down.

The comps are insulting, .$25/hr is a joke, but people need to take into account that you're getting 17 tier credits an hour for playing poker which is factored into your rating with Caesars. My understand is that it takes 4000 tier credits to attain Platinum with Caesars, which should be easy enough for any regular poker player to attain and maintain which will help you significantly in traveling to any of their properties. I would recommend setting up an account at TotalRewards.com for anyone that is going to be a semi-regular there so it's easier to access your offers and be aware of your tier score and Rewards credit balance. (I am far from a degenerate and actually only blew $500 in Caesars casinos last year in Vegas - along with my limited poker play in Chicago which was maybe 12 hours and I receive free rooms at all properties so this is definitely worth while. In comparison I gambled over 10k, losing 4, at the Aria alone in March and they just sent me 3 free nights, that's it, just three free nights to be used once.) I would hope that food comps, etc will be available once the room dies down. One thing that people are omitting in this forum is that Hollywood Casinos do not comp poker players at all (at least Charles Town). I was told by the poker players in Charles Town to not even bother getting a card because of this, so at least you're getting the $.25 plus the tier credits, even though it should be at least $1.

The games themselves.... meh. I was prepared for the $1/$2 debacle from playing at the Hammond Horseshoe (Chicago). $1/$2 is a nightmare and absolutely unbeatable, the game is tailored to the house and the completely casual player. However, fingers crossed, hopefully this creates a better $2/$5 game like the Chicago market. In Chicago the average player who would buy in for full at a Rivers $1/$3 instead plays $2/$5 and blows a few $300 buy-ins. The problem being that it's Chicago, a totally different market from Cleveland. I would think there's enough money in the greater Cleveland area that this may be possible. The lone con of the isolated poker room that we all love, is the fact that the degenerates that used to make the Nautica games great will never make it passed the blackjack and dice tables on the ground level. I prefer the $500 max $2/$5 because I think if the game is too deep (Reference $1500 max at the Wynn: filled with hoodie wearing, iPad reading/listening, internet introverts sitting on 300bb stacks waiting to feast on the 1 or 2 fish in the game) it turns away a certain demographic and makes the game bad. Either way I play almost all Omaha and do have some complaints about those game structures. $1/$2 is lame, $1/$3 is significantly better, however the $5 straddle makes the game ok. The biggest problem with $1/$2 is the $300 max and the supposed $15 bring in, which turns it into an all-in fest on the turn and takes most of the skill out of PLO. On opening night (early Tuesday morning) we were opening UTG for $8, however on Wednesday afternoon a woman floor person said that the first player into the pot may open for $15. This is a problem for the structure of the game. The cap needs to be raised to $500 immediately if this to be the case. I am a firm believer that the game should be played exact pot size before the flop and then rounded up to a red chip game post flop and I hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears. The $2/$5, can't really complain, $1k or $1500 max on a $2/$5 PLO is pretty standard across the country, the min should be raised to $300 though.

Hopefully the rake issue is addressed but seeing as how $7 a pot was tolerated at Nautica for so long and Charles Town packs 30 tables with the $6 rake, I doubt it. I never had a pot raked pre-flop, hopefully this isn't just dealer error and continues to be regular practice.

All in all it's a work in progress, which is to be expected. The fact that it's a Caesars room will keep me going back. I hope they get things right and I'm sure they will. However, they are fortunate in the fact that they have a monopoly on poker in Cleveland and don't necessarily have to cater to the players but I don't think that it's the company or the room manager's nature to do so.
syxxpac914 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 11:50 PM   #116
UGotTheTouch
adept
 
UGotTheTouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 789
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyddDynamite View Post
Comps
The comps are a complete joke. I can go to Borgata and literally get eight times the comp rate. I didn't eat, but if I was eating I would want to eat at a casino for free since I spend my entire day inside it playing. It costs me $160 in rake to play for 10 hours, and what do I get? $2.50... and that's IF they would have swiped my card in right away, but they didn't and I got $1.75.
That's how you treat your customers? I started $5/$10 game (first guy on the list and I got three people from my $2/$5 game to come over and play so we could start a game) and I get comped less than the change most people have in their couch.
$1440 got raked from that game and assuming everyone swiped in (which they didn't) the total comps were $22.50. At most casinos these numbers would be $1,080 and $90. So they're raking 33% more than a standard rake, and shafting players with 75% less then a standard normal comp.
Yeah, the 25 cents is ****ty considering the vast majority of all other Caesars properties does $1/hr.

I just wouldn't compare them to Borgata. Borg and all of AC can get away with giving away so much because they're trying to retain customers.

As I've said with the $6 rake, Caesars is abusing the Cleveland monopoly.

If rake was $5 (pretty standard outside AC/Vegas) and the comps were $1/hr (Caesars' own standard pretty much elsewhere), and the dealers would get to keep their own tips (instead of this pooling garbage), things would be better.
UGotTheTouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 11:55 PM   #117
UGotTheTouch
adept
 
UGotTheTouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 789
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apology7 View Post
1/2 = $200
2/5 = $500
5/10 = $1,500
10/25 = (if it ever goes off) I think is no max
What are the minimums?
UGotTheTouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 01:01 AM   #118
Tom1975
arbitrary and capricious
 
Tom1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: two can play at this game
Posts: 17,723
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
One thing that people are omitting in this forum is that Hollywood Casinos do not comp poker players at all (at least Charles Town). I was told by the poker players in Charles Town to not even bother getting a card because of this, so at least you're getting the $.25 plus the tier credits, even though it should be at least $1.
This may be true for Charles Town but is not true across all Hollywood properties. I play at the Hollywood in Lawrenceburg, Indiana and they comp $1/hr.
Tom1975 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 03:47 AM   #119
KyddDynamite
veteran
 
KyddDynamite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,464
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BADUU View Post
Not sure where that would be if you want to play 2/5 or higher.
The Rivers? Presq Isle? Wheeling? Meadows? Mountaineer? None of them have these games.

I guess if you have time to drive 6 hours to Borgata, or the Parx, you are in business.

Detroit, Charlestown, and Rivers $1/$3 imho is as good as Horseshoe's $2/$5 when you factor in the comps, dealers, and rake. Also, there is a chance you can actually play $2/$5 - I know I'm always on the list!
KyddDynamite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 04:42 AM   #120
Beet Farmer
centurion
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 165
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Is food allowed at the table's?
Beet Farmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 08:38 AM   #121
scottshuller
newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 34
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beet Farmer View Post
Is food allowed at the table's?
From what Jeremy told me, you can only eat food if you are playing 2/5 PLO or higher. Not even 2/5 can you eat food on the floor. LOL
scottshuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 08:48 AM   #122
Aesah
Concept of the Week Author
 
Aesah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,618
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

haha wat that's hilarious, eating food at table = high limit VIP treatment IMO

Anyway, I'll add that I was told by a floorguy (I assume less authority than Jeremy?) that you can buy/bring food yourself but can't get it delivered
Aesah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 09:16 AM   #123
iTzLifestyle
Pooh-Bah
 
iTzLifestyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: wny
Posts: 3,587
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

So what are the chances of a 5/10 running tonight?
iTzLifestyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 09:23 AM   #124
BADUU
banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 483
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

Quote:
Detroit, Charlestown, and Rivers $1/$3 imho is as good as Horseshoe's $2/$5 when you factor in the comps, dealers, and rake
IMO, the Rivers 1/3 is no where near the 2/5 at Cleveland. Yesterday the Rivers had 9 tables running, the horseshoe was full at 30. How many of those 9 tables were action or regs?
With the weekend here it will be absolute chaos at Cleveland!!
BADUU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 09:36 AM   #125
rambo1
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 86
Re: Horseshoe Casino (Cleveland, OH)

The last couple nights Rivers has been real slow action wise. Wonder if its related to Cleveland opening at all.
rambo1 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online