the drink service is not horrible however, it definitely could be better. for some reason the waitresses don't usually come up to a table and ask if you want something. so if you are stuck at a corner table you sometimes have to flag a girl down to get something. been at places where service is worse. though.

overall, anyone who has previously been on the cleveland poker scene really should not be complaining much about this place especially since it should improve.

Hello everyone, I've been reading your responses in this thread for the past few days, and I felt compelled to post. Many of you seem like casino poker "regulars", and very knowledgable about the proper etiquette and behavior when in the poker room.

I guess I am what some of you might consider a "fish" or "young gun". I'm 23 years old, never been to a casino in my life, lifelong Cleveland native. I'm excited to get to the Horseshoe and check out the poker room. Although I've never been to a casino, I'm very familiar with the game, and have been a very successful online player for the past two years, and have played in countless "basement" games throughout my college years. So I am not so much concerned about the actual poker, stakes, rake, etc....I am more concerned with knowing the proper casino etiquette when I visit the Horseshoe this weekend. I enjoy playing live and I'm sure I'll settle in and hold my own, but I don't want to look like a fool or get on the nerves of the regular players.

I am familiar with the responsibility of "tipping the dealer". I also know that I should avoid the "hit and run" strategy of winning a huge pot and immediately leaving my seat. Are there any other tips you guys have?

Again, I know many of you guys hate the category of poker player that I fall into, but I hope you can respect my desire to fall in line with the proper etiquette and try and adjust to the live poker scene in Cleveland. Thanks.

Born and Raised,

Don't sweat it. Half the people in the room (maybe more) have no idea what they're doing - so you're already ahead of the game. When you arrive at the front desk/podium, give them your TR card and/or your name and tell them which game you'd like to play. They'll either point you to your table or put you on a list (if there is a wait for the game you want to play). If they put you on a list, they'll take your cell # and text you when your seat becomes available. Once you're called, head to the poker room cage to get your chips (if you're playing 1/2, the min buy-in is $50 and the max is $200. Take the chips to your seat and take them out of the plastic chip rack.

After that, it's just poker. Typical table etiquette (don't fold out of turn, don't talk about someone's hand when you're not in, etc.). I'm not a serious player by any means and when I played the other night it was obvious that only 2 of the players at my table were. In other words, there's no reason to feel intimidated. If you have any questions, just ask - the dealers will be more than happy to answer (if they even know the answer!). The last thing you want to worry about is impressing other players.

Played about an 8 hour session last night. Place was crazy as usual.

At one point the list for 1/2 was over 100 people deep. The list for 2/5 was 30 players deep, and they had 6 full tables playing.
They are definitely short on dealers. As many were working well past 8 hours.

No major problems, just the occasion misdeal. We had pizza brought right to our table, so didn't even have to miss any hands.

When I left around 1AM, there was a line to get in the casino about and hour long.

piddylolo, Thanks!

Looking forward to my first visit to the poker room ASAP. Sounds like the place is still getting its feet wet and working out some kinks. I'm sure Memorial Day weekend won't help the cause, so I'll probably wait until Tuesday. I'm anxious to get down there and play some good poker, solid action, with knowledgable players, and have a good time. Thanks again.

I went to the horseshoe for the first time last night and I'm dissapointed to say that it is the most poorly run casino that I have ever been to. How much of that is due to the fact the casino is new and every new business deserves somewhat of a learning curve and how much is due to the fact the government granted them a monopoly with very little consumer protections and they simply don't care what their customers think remains to be seen. I will also say the poker room was poorly run but many of their employees seemed to understand they did not know much and they appeared to be trying to learn how to do their jobs better. I have several complaints with the poker room.
1) As has been said before it took me 45 minutes just to put my name on a list and then took an hour for me to get a table after that. I do like the policy of texting a person's cellphone when their seat is ready, but the reception quality in the casino is very poor.
2) The rake structure is 10% with a 6$ max and a 1 bbj drop and I'm not sure if 5/10 limit is even worth playing with this structure. If a 8/16 or 10/20 limit game ran I will go to the poker room much more often than if 5/10 is the highest limit game a person can get.
3) A person cannot go have a smoke in less than 20 minutes. One must walk through the entire casino and go down two levels to have a smoke. A person must also tell the security guard at the exit that they are having a somke and ask him if it is ok if they do not have to wait in the huge line to come back in. The first time I did not do this and I walked outside and when I walked back in the security guard told me I had to wait in a 60 person line that allowed people in only after other people left. I told him my money is on a poker table and I asked him if he can go up and get it for me so that I can take my money and go home. He refused. I then told him that it is border line theft to allow me to leave my money on the table and then not allow me back in to get my money. I spoke to his manager and the manager let me in.
4) Many times a person missed their blinds, myself included, and came back in LP, MP, or EP and the dealer dealt them in without them posting blinds. This happened with 4 different dealers and one time I called the floor and the floor man said this was the policy. Obviously, this cannot be the policy because a person could play without ever posting blinds. This will not continue to happen but it still should never have been an issue to begin with.
5) I had a couple dealers that were good and a few that were very bad. The dealers let people have drinks on the table with no cup holder and this is clearly a killed hand waiting to happen. I also had to inform many dealers that it is their job to make players play in order and in a reasonable amount of time.
6) I will say the driink service was good.

If there are any players on here that want to play limit hold-em higher than 5/10and want to try and start a system where we try to provide a way to ensure these games can run on a somewhat regular basis I would be willing to join that system. I will always be willing to play 10/20 regardless of who is at the table. With 15/30 or 20/40 I will play sometimes but if I feel I am an overall dog I will leave the table. Let me know if others want to join this system and then we can think of ways to implement it.

i am absolutely in for this. every time i am there i will put my name on any lhe list up to 20-40.

ive been sweating bravo all day and it looks like they just started their first 5-10 lhe game. how exciting.

anyway, as ive been saying all thread, i think it will be possible to foster a lhe environment here. there are still 17 ppl on the 5-10 waitlist on bravo fwiw.

I am in for anything 10/20+. If you want, we can push 10/20 limit and see if we get takers. I am ok with that as a regular game and then maybe 30 or 40 in the future.

The rake is absolutely criminal in this casino! The level of greed will devastate the games. Good luck to those of you pushing for limit hold'em I would estimate around $320 an hour will come off the table. Sounds like a kickass good time to play in a game where every player will be a long term loser.

I def agree with this statement as I think any lhe game below 8/16 is not even worth playing. However, with 8/16 and above one can show a long term profit even with this rake structure. Will you being willing to join a group of people who will try to get higher stakes lhe games run on a regular basis?

bkbgame - "1) As has been said before it took me 45 minutes just to put my name on a list and then took an hour for me to get a table after that. I do like the policy of texting a person's cellphone when their seat is ready, but the reception quality in the casino is very poor."

I'm one of the people who posted the same miserable experience.

There is simply NO excuse for making people wait on line for 45 minutes to get on a list.

Incidentally, I'm willing to play LHE for 10/20;15/30; 20/40. Can't imagine higher games going, and don't think these games will go, but willing to try.

However:

king broccoli - "The rake is absolutely criminal in this casino! The level of greed will devastate the games. Good luck to those of you pushing for limit hold'em I would estimate around $320 an hour will come off the table. Sounds like a kickass good time to play in a game where every player will be a long term loser."

I agree with the king and the many others who have commented on this. The rake is absurd.


I have a Diamond card, so can be spared the long lines into the casino.
But I have not been back since my 1st 2 visits.

If I go there when the casino is jammed, I am not willing to stand on line for 45 minutes to 1 hour simply to get on the list for a game, because the casino could have 1 or 2 more minimum wage employees maintaining the list but they are too cheap to do so.

If I go in the early am, the games are all short, rather than consolidating the tables.

Top that off with the $25 parking fee - what if I get there at 200 am, there's no worthwhile games going at the limits I'm interested in, and I don't play poker for an hour. It's insulting to be asked to pay $25 to get casino parking.
I've heard the excuse used that the higher parking fee is to not let people who work downtown and/or those going to NBA/MLB games park for free at the casino.
But then, why charge $25 at 200 am? They should be overjoyed anyone is entering their parking garage at that hour.

Incidentally - the poker room NEVER answers the phone - at least in my experience after numerous tries.

FU Caesar's/Harrah's.

There's a reason that they're known as the Evil Empire.

OK in less than 2 hours we got 3 people who are willing to try and get higher lhe games. I think this is a good result.
I'm curious to think how other people think the best way to do this is. I will put my thoughts down and other people can add their own ideas and comments.
1) We need an idea of when people can play. I do work but my work time is very flexible and I only need to get a certain amount of work done every week. This averages out to about 50 hrs a week. As a result of my work schedule, the time I can play poker is also flexible. I can play about 4 days a week with 2 of those days being long sessions of over 10 hours and the other 2 being 5-8 hour long sessions. I am not a morning person and I will rarely agree to go to the casino before 3 pm. However, some days I will be able to play all night and early into the morning such as 6am.
2) As cap217 said, I think we should experiment with different stakes to get an idea of the type of demand we can expect.
3) My feeling is if we can get at least 4 people willing to play a certain stake,then the casino would be willing to offer that game. I'm not sure if this is correct. The actual number may be higher or it could possibly be as low as 3.
4) I also think that if we are trying to get at least a 10/20 game going then none of us should be willing to play any stake lower than that at least for the first couple hours.
5) My mom is staying with me till this Tuesday, but after she leaves I will be willing to commit to playing at anytime where at least 2 other people are willing to commit. Provided the start time is 3pm or later.

If others put down the times they can play then hopefully we can get an agreement of people willing to play sometime after Tuesday of this week.

The best advice I can give is to set a specific day / time and aim for once a week until interest builds. Also, you should be willing to start the game short handed and hope for others to join in. If others join in, find out when they'd be willing to play and schedule your next game. This is the only way I see the game happening.

Go to nautica! Good riddance

Someone told me Cleveland Horseshoe rake is the same as the Detroit rooms. Can anyone confirm this? If so, I see little hope of them lowering it...

Toledo casino opens this week, I'll be curious to see their rake also...

All 3 casinos in Detroit are 6+1 rake. It will not change.

Every single person posting on here is complaining about
(a)the long lines at the podium/casino doors
(b)the long wait 4 tables after getting on the bravo
(c)the rake

As long as the casino has both A & B, there simply is zero reason to change C.

Why did numerous messages in this thread get removed?

B&M is modded pretty close to the vest (and it used to be a lot worse). Low content and offensive posts aren't not very tolerated. So if you bother to post in a thread, have at least some point and obviously don't go on some tirade that looks like a constellation after the profanity filter.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...1-10-a-851539/

i am damn near positive the ppl putting their names on the 20-40 lhe interest list would prefer to play shorthanded. i am also certain that if a 3handed 20-40 game started it would fill in less than an hr.

and lastly i am certain that jeremy will never allow a shorthanded limit game to start.

The 4 casinos allowed by Ohio law are governed by the Ohio Casino Control Commission. The Commission is required to insure that players are treated fairly by the casino. This includes rake and many other factors. Ohio law gives the Commission a lot of authority in controlling the operations of the casino. The casinos are government created monopolies and therefore the Commission is one of the only ways consumers can respond to unfair treatment. If the Horseshoe treats us unfairly, then a well written letter to the commission may provide some relief. Hopefully we do not have to write the letter.

Feel free to disagree but the reason there is much interest in 3 - 6 limit and not much interest in higher limit games is because 3 - 6 limit caters to broke people.

some of the 2-5 plus NL players who have been awhile might play 20 - 40 limit but its not like most of them really want to.

lets face it limit poker died quite awhile ago. Within the next couple years especially in cleveland there will be more PLO and a few less NL games and still very few limit games.

not to say you could not get a 5 - 10 game going. obviously, some people who have won at 3 - 6 might want to go higher but they also might just go back to NL.

You guys have like one more week to get my money. I'll set the line on number of lhe games bigger than 15/30 that run from now to the end of June at zero and I'll take the under. The only floor staff that seems capable of calling people to organize games are the top section of Commerce and the top section of Bellagio and I doubt anyone between the Atlantic and Nevada is going to join that list in my lifetime.

Regarding the long lines/waits, let's remember that this casino & poker room are only 2 weeks old and right now demand is seriously outpacing supply. Couple that with 90%+ new, local dealers (and many other first-time casino employees) who are nervous/unsure of themselves and inevitably it's going to come off as a poorly run operation.

With the above said, anyone showing up on Memorial Day weekend expecting some semblance of organization and efficiency is not being very practical.

Give it a few weeks/a couple months and things will start jelling. Demand/attendance will start to stabilize, dealers/employees will become more comfortable & confident, the casino/poker room will work out some of the kinks and it will be smooth sailing from there...

...other than the $6+1 rake...