And implement a $5 bring-in for PLO

speak of the devil.. per hollywood poker's facebook page

There's a new game in town! Many players have asked for a game in between our $1/2 NLHE and $2/5 NLHE. Beginning this Friday, we will start offering a $2/5 NLHE CAP game. This will be a $2/5 NLHE with a $200 minimum buy-in and a $500 maximum buy-in.

I appreciate very much that Hollywood is attempting to cater to the players (they're obviously following this thread, which I give them kudos for), but I for one am not pleased about this development. One of the things I hate about Horseshoe Cleveland is the possibility of, say, being in a juicy, deep-stacked 2-5 NL game past midnight (let's say ave stack $1500), and risking that if I get stacked I am limited to buying back in for $500. This is why the 70% rule is a good compromise that has historically worked very well in Columbus (i.e., the clubs) -- it gives players some flexibility in recognition of the fact that games are capable of becoming quite deep-stacked, but also imposes a decent safeguard from preventing games from getting too out of control relative to the blinds. This worked beautifully in Columbus for years and was well-liked by players of all abilities and stack preferences.

Of course, if I don't like a cap, I don't have to play in a capped game, and I can stick with the current 2-5. However, the capped game will very likely make the existing 2-5 worse than it is already to the point where I would expect the current 2-5 to eventually fade out of existence, to be replaced by who knows what (likely a 5-10 capped game, which I also don't want). At the very least, the current 2-5 will almost certainly get worse as a result of this development, and that's really saying something since the 2-5 has already gotten much worse since the casino opened.

I will not likely play much if any 2-5 cap, as the buy-in is too small for me and I don't like shallower play. So, I expect to be left with no options that seem attractive. I feel like many 2-5 players will feel similarly and start considering going to the clubs regularly again.

I don't think it was a coincidence that Hollywood went out of its way to make a big deal out of the 100% rule when it opened. That's because Columbus poker is a deep-stacked culture and Columbus players by and large prefer deeper games. In fact, I think a primary reason so many players travel from out of town to play in Columbus is because Columbus offers deep-stacked play not available in Cleveland or many other rooms that insist on a cap.

IMO, it would be much better to simply impose a 70% rather than 100% rule. Players are already familiar with this model via the clubs, and, as I stated earlier, this is a proven model that players are almost universally happy with. In the alternative, I would suggest Hollywood be flexible with the cap and create 2-5 $1k cap tables. As it is now, I will be considering playing at the clubs again more regularly and do not look forward to watching how things play out at the casino . . . even though I do like the room. I know I cannot be alone. Just saying.

While I'm on my soapbox, the 1-2 PLO cap should be made a $5 bring-in with the max buy raised to $500. This would result in an easier time for the dealers, more hands/hour, and happier regs, as $500 is something everyone can live with. $300 is too small for PLO and the $2 BB no bring-in results in a lot of dealer time spent making change. Doubt any PLO regs would object to this.

Imo the long term health of no limit games higher than 1-2 necessitates that the game be more attractive to current 1-2 players. The cap does that. I agree w karamadonks [lol] statement about the cbus culture loving deep stack play, but they can get that at 1 2. Plus fish make awful pf mistakes w 100bb stacks, and we need that at 2 5.

Also agree w 5 bring in for plo.

I think that this is a great example of professional / more serious recreational players being greedy in the short term hurting the long-term health of the game.

Wow less than 1 hr in to my session and two things have happened that have irritated me. Am I wrong to be salty?

First, within :25 of sitting I flop a set and stack a woman. Two hands later I flop another set (I know ez game) from BB and check a dry ten high flop around. I bet the turn big and one older guy calls on button. River is another ten. He immediately asks if I checked, which I had not, but the dealer says yes and he turns over his hand (two nines).

At first I was cool but the guy started talking like "it's a moot point if you can't beat me". At that point I asked for floor who ruled that there can be no more betting. I feel like his call on turn means he thought he could beat a ten and that he'd have called a huge over bet on river.

Then, just a few orbits later but with a different dealer, I make a big bet and the same mean lady that I stacked earlier folds out of turn. She's a rules nit and I asked the dealer to remind her, etc, but when he did it was ultra friendly. It's like some dealers would rather be your friend than run a fair game.

/endrant

Forgot this one: I call $10 straddle from SB. BB calls. Straddler is older man who instantly makes it $40. He's done this once before too. 4 callers and its back on me with $300 behind... I had great reads and went with my gut. I jam and everyone folds fairly quickly save the Button, who starts talking about how it's such a great bet and there is so much dead $ in pot. Then to make it worse guy on his right who just folded $40 dead starts chiming in. Eventually the Button folded but it was really inappropriate and the dealer never said a word.

I hate to be a rules nit but I guess it's better to says something before it actually matters. I was playing a few weeks ago and this guy to my right was habitually folding out of turn. It wasn't on accident, he just clearly didn't care but nobody every said anything, including me because I didn't wan't to seem like a dick. Eventually he gets in a pot that gets to the river three way where he's last to act after the aggressor. The aggressor ends up bluffing the river and of course the one guy folds out of turn making it a much easier call for the guy in the middle who calls and wins. I would have been really pissed if I was the guy who lost the pot.

The problem is 90% of these people are idiots and they get all butt hurt when you ask them to play by the rules. The consequence is that people let these small things slide in the interest of avoiding conflict. I'm clearly guilty of doing the same thing. It amazes me how pissed off I've seen people get when players or dealers simply remind them of the rules.

What did you expect the dealer to do ? Flog her ? Call her a stupid bitch and tell her to pay attention ? Really ???

If its the first time a dealer sees an minor infraction he should be polite and remind the player to follow rules. If its been a long or frustrating session players can have mental lapses just let it go.

Your first part was unfortunate but are you sure that your hands were not making any motions that might be misunderstood as a check ??

I was just upset because 1) this particular woman tilts the isht out of me 2) the dealer is the chattiest dealer ever. He's a nice guy, but way way too talkative in big spots (and overall) 3) the dealer didn't even flinch when she walked away effectively folding out of turn 4) the dealer was way too nice in asking her to not fold out of turn when she returned to the table. 5) mainly this woman just tilts me.

I'm sure I'm also being a bit nitty, but it seemed to rain on me tonight w/ weird things happening. I ended up mentioning it to the floor after the next incident, in which I played a hand that lasted nearly 10 minutes. I checked river heads-up and villain tanked for ~5 minutes. During this time, players not in the hand were whispering about it, including a player on my right (not in the hand) addressing the tanking player "xxx do you know its on you?" (to be fair the player on my right was being sincere, but he still should not address a player in the tank) and the lady on my left asked the dealer for a clock, but the dealer informed her that only I could call the clock. I then asked the dealer stop people from talking about the hand in progress "this is kind of a big spot." I think that comment actually may have helped me though as it made me sound weak.

Re: the check - I am sure I didn't move or check - I play regularly and when I take an action, the dealer and players know. The dealer just made a mistake and normally it would've been quickly caught as I spoke up instantly however the villain had turned his hand up instantly as well. It was just unfortunate. I still tipped her.

Yeah youre being a nit. If some clown is tanking for 5 minutes facing no action you dont want anyone addressing him?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using 2+2 Forums

Asking a tanking player if he knows the action is on him is completely standard. You're beyond nitty on this one. also, you say that you asked the dealer to stop the players from talking ABOUT the hand ... but give no examples of what they were saying. Were the actually discussing your (and his) possible holdings (he has a flush, he's bluffing, etc.), or were they just talking about who the action was on?

As for your quads hand ... as soon as your opponent asked if he (you) had checked, you should have/could have simply said you didn't act yet before the dealer answered him.

So what do you do in the nearly 90%+ of the other casinos that have a capped buy-in? Granted, some are capped at 1k, but many are still capped at $500. There are only a couple that I know that offer a 50% or 75% or 100% buy-in of the biggest stack (and none that I am aware of in Vegas).

Whether it's 70%. 75% or 100%... the stacks get huge relative to the blinds and the game. I'm not saying this is a bad thing ... I loved the deep stacks at Gemini. But changing the 100% rule to 70% doesn't really make the game play that much smaller. It just takes a little longer to get it large. The 1-2 player who is intimidated by the monster stacks still doesn't play a 70% game.

You say that the 2-5 game has gotten "much worse" than when the casino opened. What do you mean by "much worse?" Not enough fish? If so, I think that is directly attributable to the 100% rule. If not, please let me know how it has gotten worse.

i play 2/5 all the time and the past two weeks i cant even come into the casino when i did before because its getting harder and harder to start a game. the regs dont want to start a game with other regs. the game is dying and it is a necessity at this point to cap the 2/5. with the cap of 500 is there still a 100 percent buy in of the biggest stack?

No. Regardless of stack sizes, you could never buy in for more than $500 in this capped 2-5 game. Having a 100% rule would effectively negate the cap after an hour or two of play.

The cap on a single 2/5NLHE is a good thing from my perspective. I know I am more likely to join a table the next time I am in the room. I play at HCC about twice a month. Very regular since opening day, but only 1/2NLHE. I have passed up moving to 2/5 here because the game always appeared to play too big for me, but there have also been some big 1/2 tables I have sat at too. Bottom line, I know my style, I know what I can afford, and I choose to play when I think the casino draw overall helps populate the poker room with casual players. I would feel comfortable playing at a capped table.

My main point is this: I expect the cap game effectively to destroy the currently existing 2-5 game. If that happens, there won't be any games that conform with what I want to play in terms of the amount of $ on the table and level of depth of play relative to the blinds. I am confident the majority of current 2-5 players will feel the same way and find quickly that there are no good options available ot them. These are players who, like me, are huge rake generators on a weekly basis who I would hope the casino would be interested in hearing out and accomodating to the extent it's consistent with the health of the room.

And, yes, it is true that probably the majority of poker rooms do not offer the kinds of tables I'm looking for. But, Columbus, first in the clubs and now the casino, has always offered that kind of table as a default and imo the vast majority of players here now have the same preferences for deep-stacked play that I do.

Do I have my own interests in mind in objecting to the capped game? Absolutely. That being said, I don't think people should take it for granted that moving to a cap model would be better for the longterm health of the room. I expect a capped game would in fact make the room a less desirable option for out-of-town players, as many players I've spoken to in the bigger games come to Cbus for the deep-stacked play.

I do agree, though, that the current 2-5 is really struggling. I am also aware there is a problem in that many 1-2 players are intimidated by the size of the current 2-5 game. While I don't think a cap table is a good solution, my suggestion is, as stated before, create a 200bb cap or impose a universal 70% rule.

A 200bb cap would be much more consistent with Columbus poker's preference for deep-stacked play yet still result in the in-between game 1-2 players looking to play bigger are looking for. A 100bb cap, which is currently planned, would probably play smaller than at least 1/3 of 1-2 games, which just doesn't make sense when the whole reason for creating the game is that these 1-2 players want to play bigger. I would be more than happy to play a 200bb cap and I suspect most 2-5 players who would hate a 100bb cap would also be willing to live with a 200bb cap.

Also, and I recognize my sample size is small, on the 1/2 tables, my experience is that as soon as a visibly decent stack develops at the table, (700+), you can almost feel the regs swooping in. Of course table dynamics change, and the the initial stack nits up because now his/her entire stack is at risk. I don't know what is good for the game short/long term in Columbus, but the lack of a cap feels like it hurts in those instances.

im sorry but the bolded part is just not true what so ever. If you want to play deeper there are still 5/10 games that will run most weekends and some weeknights that will be uncapped. most of the time right now the 2/5 plays as a 5/10 anyways so just dont straddle at 5/10 and it will be effectively the same because at the super deep 2/5 tables most players are straddling.

I understand what you're saying. I agree that the capped 2-5 game might destroy the current 100% 2-5 game. But I think they have to do something. The casino is barely six months old and already there is talk that the 2-5 game has dried/is drying up?

Perhaps a capped 2-5 game will cause a 5-10 game (maybe 1500 or 2k cap) to start on a semi-regular basis or weekends?

And yes, the regs are the rake generators for the room, and their needs/wishes should be addressed. But it seems like the market is speaking a little bit as well and the room needs to address the market. Maybe a 1k cap on the 2-5 game would be a good compromise? Maybe we need to see what the $500 cap does to the game and adjust then?

I'm big fan of the 2-5 game and want to see it continue long term. From what I'm hearing/seeing, it's not got much of a future as a regular game in its current state.

They should hard cap all NL and PLO 5/10 and lower at 200xBB. Maybe no cap on 5/10 PLO. This half and half is dumb. Confusing and inconsistent.

This would be fine with me albeit if all games were capped I think PLO should be a 250bb or 300bb cap. Should not be held to the same restrictions as NL and is not in most rooms.

He clearly knew it was on him. He had asked how much I was playing, etc.

Yes, they were whispering about who had the case King. It was fairly ridiculous. The other hand (full house, not quads fwiw) happened very quickly and I had headphones on. I was sitting motionless when the river hit and about 5 seconds after it hit, villain asked dealer and she immediately answered and he immediately turned his hand over. There was no time for me to correct it. It was just quite unfortunate.

This made my night.

May 13

$1,000 Buy-In 40 min levels (meh) 15k chips.
(pretty sure it's actually $1,100 w/ $90 being the rake and $10 to dealer appreciation)

May 13 - Day 1a (Monday)
May 14 - Day 1b
May 15 - Day 1c
May 16 - Day 1d
May 17 - Day 2a
May 18 - Day 2b
May 19 - Final (Sunday)

If you are knocked out you can re-enter a different day 1, meaning you can be in for up to $4.4k.

It appears that starting Monday May 6 through May 15 there will be $150 single-table satellites into the above $1k ($129 entry, $16 rake, $5 dealers). 1st = $1,100 Cbus seat 2nd = $200. Only problems is that they are 15 minute levels and 1500 chips. Yes, 1500 chips.

Also starting May 6 through May 17 are $430 single-table satellites into the Hollywood Poker Open (Vegas). $2500 seat + $1500 cash to winner in a winner-take-all format. 15 minute levels and 3k chips.

Monday May 19 is a $440 multi-table satellite into the Hollywood Poker Open (Vegas) where 1 in 10 win a $4k package. 5k chips and 15 minute levels (puke)

Source

Source

STT satellites are usually shovefests, so the 1500 chips is far from unusual.