Old man coffee.

A term used in poker community for an old guy who sits there waiting for the nuts and reads the newspaper while sipping coffee.

Further...coined in an ongoing post by 2+2 member Rumnchess (Twitter : Rumnchess). Made the final table 2019 WSOP Main Event. Top 3? I think.
His posts identified several hilarious names and descriptions of typical poker room denizens. A must read. Rumnchess' name is certainly public knowledge, and easily Googleable. Solid MTT player. Canadian (Nova Scotia) now lives in Las V.

Read the posts, especially the part called "Player Profiles"
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...ing+live+poker

You have a bad understanding of OMCs if you think OMCs don't notice the rake. They watch every penny. The reason they are only playing 1 hand per hour is they aren't going to waste money on a non-premium hand that doesn't have a great chance to win.

However, a midweek day after a holiday weekend is going to be slow anywhere. I wouldn't read too much into it. If you see Foxwoods consistently have more tables than the Encore, then you may be on to something.

They may notice, but it would be hard to justify saying they care about the rake. Either they don't care or they think promo rakes are actually justified. Of all the days I've played and dealt in NH rooms with $2 promo rake, OMC have made up at least 20% of the player pool.

How have the 2/5 games been lately on the weekends? Reading back looks like they’ve been good, curious for a recent take.


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No promo today and the amount of 1/3 tables encore has is more than the total amount of tables at Mohegan(who is running a hh promo), Foxwoods and mgm(who is also running a promo)

Fair point!

The bottom line is, the Encore poker room is woefully under performing management's expectations. Management has already cut down the size of the poker room once, and when they think about it, and figure out a way to cut the size of the room further, they'll jump for joy, and take a hatchet to it.

I don't think they'll cut it again unless there is some significant drop in business from where they are now. They pretty consistently use most of the tables in the main room now that there are tournaments going and they will want those tables available.

"Woefully underperforming" - this is the first I've heard of it. Still hiring dealers and promoting to dual rates and floor managers. Room is often at least half full if not more, especially on weekends and even later at night. I never see dealers sitting dead spread for more than a few minutes. Not sure what your criteria is for underperformance, but I'd be happy with the numbers if I were running the room (though of course looking to make it even busier).

Around 8pm tonight Encore was running the best utilization of any casino in the area (couldn't say Twins numbers since they don't show). MGM was 2nd place but they have far fewer tables.

Cmon! You cannot convince me that he’s not RhodyGuy

If encore gets sportsbetting they will thrive. Would be the nuts.

Still hiring dealers is not a good sign.

Not sure what "dual rates" means, guessing someone is sometimes a dealer, sometimes a floor person, or two different pay rates for dealers ?

This is not a good thing.


What! The room is never half full Monday thru Thursday, I don't think it's half full most Sundays outside of possibly the high hand hours, and the room is not half full on Friday and Saturdays before early evening. The room use to peak at 70 tables running on Friday and Saturday, nowadays it's doubtful 60 tables get running for more than a handful of hours a week, and might not get 60 tables running at all period.

I'm pretty sure you're either biased, reporting based on feel rather than actually counting, or intentionally misrepresenting the facts. I often look at poker atlas for NH and MA at all times of day. More often than not, there are 40 or more tables running. Other than special events or large tournaments, I've never seen them run 60-70 tables. Weeknights are slower than weekends, but they still push 30-35. When I ran that stat for you it was 33 tables running. Even if your numbers were true, then that could also easily be explained by the newness wearing off. Players coming out in droves in the beginning just because it is new, and now reduced or eliminated their visits.

The stats I provided are the likely metrics any business would use to gauge their effectiveness. I doubt Encore is going to just sit back and let the room so whatever it does. They will likely try to drive traffic one way or another. But by any measurement of the market they are doing better than any competitors with higher traffic, higher utilization, and higher revenues.

Hiring dealers is good. Remember that many of those in the initial hire were new to dealing. It isn't for everyone and just being able to pass an audition isn't an indicator of whether someone can handle a crazy game or deal for 8-10 hours straight. As those dealers are let go or quit, they need to be replaced. UNLESS the room is doing poorly, then why would they replace them? So if they're hiring, they are doing well. I also know some dealers who came from other regions (Vegas, California) and who are not loving the climate, the traffic, or the cost of living. Same scenario, they leave then they need to be replaced.

Yes, dual rates are dealers that sometimes floor. Generally if you're good you make more as a dealer than a floor, but if you have upward aspirations or wish to make your income less variable (higher salary vs being dependent on tips) you take a position as dual rate. Dual rates then become full time floors, floors become shifts, and shifts move up in the company. That upward mobility also requires replacing the promoted staff and yes, there are DR, floors, shifts etc who also decide to move back home.

$1100 200k guarantee on 2/16 and a $600 500k guarantee 2/27-3/1

I was playing in a short handed game on Sun afternoon and they came up to us and said if you guys don't get a few more players we're going to have to bump it up to full rake (from half rake) when the next dealer comes. We didn't get any more players 15 minutes later and we broke and they immediately called a new 1-3 table to our table. They had every dealer on that shift working.

I also look at PokerAtlas thru out the day. You are way off base with the "more often than not, there are 40 or more tables running" Of the 168 hours in a week, I'll guess 42 (25%) of the 168 hours have 40 or more tables running. And I think I am being generous with my 42 hour guess.

Exactly, the bloom is off the rose, thank you for making my point.

You are correct, they (the Encore) will drive traffic one way or the other.

My question to you, or anybody else is ... the Encore raising the rake, (twice now), is that part of the plan to drive traffic away from the Encore, or to drive traffic to the Encore ?

99% of players don't know or don't care about the rake, especially compared to driving to RI, NH, CT, or Springfield.

A decline from initial opening is not "underperformance". Very few businesses open with a bang and maintain or increase, especially a specialized business such as a poker room which was anticipated for years.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the table numbers. I've had many back and forth messages with friends dealing in NH, looking to play at Encore, and/or relating my own stories of play and relayed the number of tables running at Encore in those conversations.

FWIW: Visited Encore Las Vegas. A lot fewer poker players there than @ EBH.

Based on the article posted above, it is clear that the casino is underperforming from a revenue perspective vs. projections. In addition, the last "bribe" to the state because of Steve Wynn's transgressions was unexpected by them. I'm sure there were cost overruns because there are always cost overruns building in the Boston area (google 'big dig' to see the potential scale.)

Many service businesses start off with high levels of product and reduced prices. Over time, they start cutting off some of the things that they think people won't miss much. Their gorment mac and cheese may start with a completely in house made sauce, but eventually will start adding in Velveeta, for example. They'll add a dollar to the cost of the entree. None of this is unique to the Encore.

Their initial thought was that the Encore would be a high end casino. Like everyone who has tried to grab at that niche, they've found that there aren't enough people around to cover the overhead at the high end. So like every other casino, they're going mass market. Mass market doesn't need top shelf liquors.

Finally, poker for them is just a way to cover the overhead of casino and is never going to be a big money maker for them. If they could put a bunch of slots in the room and increase profits, they'd do it.

The $1100 says 2 day, so day 2 is on President's Day right?

It must be! Looks like a pretty great tourney, 400bb, 40 min levels, don't have to miss work if you run deep. I'm psyched.

Nice. Any info on satellites ?

They said more info coming soon but that there will be satellites

mod: I am sick and tired of having to deal with this pointless trolling bullshit in this thread. Latt and I are going to discuss how to handle and whether bans will be warranted. Any further continuance of this dumb argument before then will result in bans. Thank you.

There are satellites listed in Poker Atlas, two on Feb 14th and two on the 15th. All four are $200 buyin and there are ten seats guaranteed in each.