Stan,
I see the WPT schedule is up for September. Is there a "tournament hotel rate?" If so, how much and is there a code to get it?

Thanks in advance.

• $79 SUN – THU
• $149 FRI
• $179 SAT

Just ask for the tournament rate.

Stan

Reagrding that big hand, consider for a minute if the floor started counting down and at 30 seconds decided to stop the count and declare the hand dead. It'd be an inexcusable action that broke the rules.

Assuming the facts are as stated by the OP, that's what happened to the OP. A clear cut rule was clearly violated and OP suffered a big loss as a result.

The floor is suppossed to protect the players and uphold the integrity/rules of the game.

OP had every right to expect his hand to be protected by the rules.

A shame too because Stan appears to be a really good guy who cares about the players. This was a costly and serious transgression by the floor.

I agree that the floor made a mistake based on what was described in this thread. It's tough to say whether or not the player definitely lost as a result, since the other player may have called if they had a verbal countdown to a dead hand. If the poster had won a big pot because extra time was given instead, there likely wouldn't be many complaints, even by the caller.

Silence is deafening. Even if it's just an update on the process that you are taking and not a final result (yet).

I don't think anyone in the right mind would expect Borgata to be liable for 9k.

Am I the only one who doesn't really side with Brian here? First, it seems outrageous to me that anyone would call a clock in this circumstance. Second, it seems likely that his bet have gotten called had the clock never been invoked. So the only way he wins the pot is as a result of the clock being called unreasonably by a third player, forcing the woman to make a hasty decision. It doesn't seem to me that a third player should be allowed to influence the action like this.

I agree that the Borgata should enforce their rules, but I feel like they should err on the side of letting the players IN the hand decide the outcome, and giving people a reasonable amount of time. Two rules were broken here....first, a clock was called too soon, and second, the hand was not killed after then hand expired. Violating the first rule seems more egregious, and so if the only way to rectify it is to violate the second rule, that seems like a better solution than letting the first violation stand.

No, have you read the last page or 2? Bully28 brings up some good questions that I would want answered if I were in charge. How was a 3rd party interested enough to call the clock and then nobody said anything for 45 sec's while the floor person was just shooting the sh&t at the same table about the Phillies bullpen or something? It doesn't make a ton of sense without more details.

Your post is pretty much full of bad assumptions you pulled out of thin air; like the clock was called unreasonably fast. How do you know? And what makes you think she would've called if she didn't beat the count? And a 3rd player calling the clock is a pretty standard rule whether or not you agree with it.

Realistically, it won't happen.

But if Borgata did refund the amount of the lost pot, or even refund the amount that was bet on the river, the entire poker staff would then be put on notice to pay close attention to the rules in the future.

It would also set a precedent that players could refer to in the future.

When a countdown is occurring, the floor person should be paying attention to the player and the clock, and nothing else. At the end of the countdown, if the player has not acted, the floor person should either muck the hand or instruct the dealer to do it. During the entire process, the floor person must keep his/her cool.

This should be settled between Brian and Stan privately. No one else was involved. So no one else needs to know the specific outcome.

But, hopefully, this will be a catalyst for the poker room staff to start getting their acts together.

I couldn't agree more.

Stan

So, how are the rest of us supposed to know what the rules are and how they are going to be enforced if the decision isn't made public? And how could it be used as precedent if we don't know the outcome?

I'm sorry Stan but I won't play in your room until the decision is made public (and I had a room booked for the whole BPO). I want to know that I'm going to be protected by you and your staff if this situation were to happen to me. I don't know how anyone that follows this thread and plays at the Borg on a regular basis hasn't lost all the respect they had for you and your operation.

I guess my curiosity will just have to linger.

I mean seriously? Have you seen how much Stan is engaged with this thread and his players in general? We ask for a game report we get one within minutes. someone asks for a room rate or help with their comps and he responds within minutes. He has human beings working at the poker room, mistakes can happen. Let them settle it between them, I am not worried whatsoever of this happening to me when I'm there, maybe thats just me but I'm not.

No one has said the clock was called too soon. Were you there or just throwing it out there?

I don't get everyone passing the suggesstion to kill the hand onto the guy who called clock or the others at the table. The floor was there. Those not involved were respectful and smart to stay quiet and out of it.

Anyway, Stan seems to want this over and I don't blame him.

I agree, don't mean for my previous post to add to it.

My only response that I can think of are these lines from My Cousin Vinny.


It appears to me that you want to skip the arraignment process and go directly to trial. Skip that and get a dismissal. Well, I am not about to revamp the entire judicial process just because to find yourself in the unique position of (I need to know the outcome).

Seriously, please let the system work and let us figure out the right outcome. So what if it takes a few more days. The right decission is more important than a hasty one.

Stan

Pretty sure all I was asking for was a status update such as "Hey I know this is an issue and I'm looking at the tape, talking to my staff, and talking to other players at the table. I will let you all know when we come up with a decision."

Instead you took the "it doesn't exist" approach.

1. Blackmail will get you nowhere. If you're unhappy, cancel your plans to play at Borgata. (I just called your all-in bluff on the river).

B. The Borgata poker room staff should be enforcing the rules. If they don't, take it up the line until Stan gets involved.

Did it ever occur to you that i would want to protect Brian's rights here by keeping silent. I respect Brian as a player and a person. At the Borgata, I am held to a higher standard as I should be. Why talk when it's not the right time to. If Brian wants to tell his side on 2 + 2, he has every right. I do not have the right to either agree, dissagree, confirm nor deny his story in public. All I ask of everyone is to respect the process.

Stan

Seriously, please let the system work and let us figure out the right outcome. So what if it takes a few more days. The right decision is more important than a hasty one.

Isnt this EXACTLY a status update? In a situation that once again should be properly investigated, and mediated in private, because it doesnt involve ANYONE except Stan and Brian?

What part of the above statement is not a status update, in a situation that under NO obligation is it necessary for Stan to make a decision like this public? But maybe highlighting and reviewing policy with all floors/duals?

This is pretty much you have a hissy fit, and acting like an 8 year old child.

Remind me to buy you dinner on my next trip down. Whatever the house is paying you - it is not enough.

Someone said the reason the floor gave for not killing the hand was that the player had not been given a reasonable amount of time before then clock had been called. But given the bet size, I think calling a clock is always unreasonable here.

Stan,

An old friend of mine has a saying: "do you want it right or do you want it right now?" so I don't blame you for taking your time with a decision.

Beyond that, I agree that this is a private matter that doesn't need to be publicized on 2+2. But ultimately, a clarification of the rules on calling the clock is sufficient for everybody else's purposes. Rest assured that this won't stop me from playing at the borgata and shouldn't stop anybody else.

I can't believe there are people saying they will never play here again. Mistakes are made by dealers and floor supervisors every day in every room so are people just going to quit playing?
When you play higher than 2/5 there are only a couple choices in this town and the choices are like night and day.
I am NOT saying the floor is correct by not taking the initiative and calling the hand dead - if not, why start the clock for? it was a bad call, obviously, but for people to not wana play there anymore is just ridiculous. It's not like they bagged someone up for 9K and then said they gave it to the wrong player. (but they kinda let someone practically take their cards out of the muck and table them).

Wow, this thread took a 1 page off-ramp to crappiness. Let's get back on track. How busy was the room today? Status report please.

I was all planning on requesting a room for the $500+60 deep stack tourney on the 22nd-24th, but stupid work and personal things got in the way. I hope these deep stack tourneys keep going.