Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Flop shove call? Flop shove call?

08-11-2016 , 05:13 AM
Do you call this spot? Villain is an aggro player 28/20/45.I think he never shoves there JJ+.He can shove 88,88,TT and many AK and AQ.What do you think?



    Poker Stars, $3.19 Buy-in (25/50 blinds, 6 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37412718

    BTN: 135 (2.7 bb)
    SB: 2,519 (50.4 bb)
    Hero (BB): 1,850 (37 bb)
    MP1: 718 (14.4 bb)
    MP2: 1,958 (39.2 bb)
    MP3: 2,110 (42.2 bb)
    CO: 1,286 (25.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 6
    MP1 raises to 115, 3 folds, BTN calls 115, SB calls 90, Hero calls 65

    Flop: (502) 7 2 3 (4 players)
    SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets 597 and is all-in, BTN calls 14 and is all-in, SB folds, Hero calls 597

    Turn: (1,710) Q (3 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (1,710) 4 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 1,710 pot
    Final Board: 7 2 3 Q 4
    BTN showed T K and lost (-135 net)
    SB mucked and lost (-121 net)
    Hero showed 6 6 and lost (-718 net)
    MP1 showed 8 8 and won 1,710 (992 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    08-11-2016 , 06:03 AM
    I would fold, not even TP against 2 players. Even if he is on an aggro side (hard to say, 28/20 is not super aggro especially on small sample size) Open raise at 14bb can mean something. In this spot even A7o has you beaten so why risking 1/3 of your stack while you missed your set mining?
    08-11-2016 , 08:08 AM
    clear shove preflop. fold OTF
    08-12-2016 , 08:54 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wanderer_pro
    clear shove preflop. fold OTF
    Clear shove pf @ 37 BB? Struggling a bit with this IMO.

    On top of that the raise is 2.3x out of UTG who has 14BB which looks strong (not always on this rags flop but in terms of PF ranges). Don't have good odds to setmine vs. opener's stack size but with SB coming along and BTN all-in I'm happy to flat pf and try to catch.
    08-12-2016 , 09:39 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Moscow86
    Clear shove pf @ 37 BB? Struggling a bit with this IMO.

    On top of that the raise is 2.3x out of UTG who has 14BB which looks strong (not always on this rags flop but in terms of PF ranges). Don't have good odds to setmine vs. opener's stack size but with SB coming along and BTN all-in I'm happy to flat pf and try to catch.
    We have 1805 chips in our stack, the pot is 502 chips, the increase of our stack is 25% when shoved and not called. 14bb min raising range from this position should include steal combos with blockers etc. 14bb also should have shoving range, so when he does not shove, that means he doesnt have middle range. As most villains are way too unbalanced I would assume he is more bluff heavy.

    VS SB, he only completed, meaning that he never does that with his top range (he never calls an AI). You need to have 20:1/15:1/10:1 implied odds vs effective stack to make setminning profitable. (I use the rule of 10:1 and vs strong range IP is quite OK, we likely get paid, 15:1 when we are less likely to get paid and 20:1 when very diffucult to get paid, like oop vs good reg deepstacked etc.) For this situation let's be neutral and go for 15:1 since he never has his top range, and is not an aggresor in a hand. He also realises that the pot is multiway, he is on the worst position on the table and probably doesnt want to get stacked in this scenerio. SO, you call 65 to win your stack which is 1850 (28:1 - FINE)

    However, I rather take 502 chips right here right now, like almost always, then 7.5:1 when I flop a set and pray to get called by his mid range.
    08-15-2016 , 03:59 PM
    ^ You don't beat BTN "almost always". Most likely you're a only 60-40 favourite to win the dead money.

    OP has reasonably good odds because the pot is so big - the direct odds are about 8:1 already and even a half-pot bet called by someone who flops a pair bumps that up pretty quickly - two streets and you have stacks in against SB. Implied odds is in addition to direct odds, not a separate thing.

          
    m