Hey guys,

probably there are a lot of threads similar to this but it would be nice if you confirm my plan and add some points.

Ii run about 10% in 180's but my roi decreased constatly the last year. I played over 5k 180's.
I realy have problems to analize my game after a session. I don't know how to. My game based more on feeling than knowing. I apologize for my english, it isn't my native language.


1)

i want to improve my callingranges. So i must analize Hands with the SnG-Wizard.

Should i do it like this?

3-4bb im BB/Sb calling ranges ( ~M 1-1,5) vs reg / unknown
5-6bb im BB/Sb calling ranges (~M 2 - 2,5) vs reg / unknown
7-8bb im BB/Sb -:- (~M 3 - 3,5) vs reg / unknown

It's possible to handle that problem with the nash euqilibirum calling ranges from Kill Everyone?
Or are they crap?

The Nash calling ranges are very different to that what SnG-Wiz recommend.
How do you handle that problem?

I want to find some basic rules like:
Hero has 4BB and villian is pushing utg with 7-9BB, so Hero can call with nearly any ace and suited kings.


2).

When a stack is down to 3-4BB's (M1-1,5), the nash equilibirum from Kill Everyone tells me to push mostly Atc.
Do you guys push Atc here? What is your advice? What is your range?

What else i can do?

Thank you guys.

1) BoB you can call nash with 7BB or less vs regs. Vs good regs you can call wider (most regs push wider than nash). Vs tight fish you can call tighter. If you are not sure, you can call nash and it is alway EV0 or better.

2) this is villain depending but vs good regs you have no FE with 3BBs and very low with 4BBs... push -ev only if you are close to UTG

1. i dont have sitngo wiz yet so cant comment

2. I'm switching from ATC to waiting for connectors, suited aces, any pair. those type of hands. shipping your last 4bb with 93o just seems like throwing your tourney away.

If you have played a lot of hands you might consider getting a coach if you have lots of questions about push spots etc.

good luck

I'd recommend to try to memorize patterns like this (BB cEV calling ranges, post ante, zero edge) rather than fix ranges:

- with 3bb you can call ATC vs 19%+ but only 50% vs an 8% range
- with 5-6bb you can call with about the same range as shover
- with 10bb you can call with 2/3 of shoving range
...

At least that's how I go about it as I find it easier to memorize this way.

Hand 0: 71.320% 70.88% 00.44% 3072900288 19217292.00 { 22+, A2s+, KTs+, A8o+, KQo }
Hand 1: 28.680% 28.24% 00.44% 1224218856 19217292.00 { 93o }

Not quite "throwing away" esp when you have at least some FE. It's better to take a risk than to get blinded off. Also, keep in mind you're still in bad shape if you manage to double up with a 2bb stack, so better get it in while you're deeper.

i stand corrected

Acidmanner: If you are not sure, you can call nash and it is alway EV0 or better.

^^ This is wrong, calling nash isn't always EV0 or better, shoving nash is. U can't be calling nash vs randoms. The nash calling ranges are made to make the best possible play vs the nash shove range.

At OP the Kill everyone shove ranges is good shoves, you might need to be wider in some spots, but only tighter at final table if we choose to ignore 9-18 payspots cause ranges are based on cEV there in book they say ranges are moving in ranges far from the money and they are unexploitable <-- SHOVES EVERY TIME!
U can argue that in some spots like M-7/8 it's more profitable to r/c, r/f, r/jam in certain spots. cause we don't wanna shove AA for M of 7 utg even though it's +cEV

He guys, thanks a lot for the answers.

@acidmanners: what's the meaning of "BoB"?
It's my first time in an English spoken forum. I hope you understand what i am writing.


Thanks a lot for the answers.
I like these patterns. Do you have more patterns like this?

I think the range is very tight here...i mean a normal reg does call wider, doesn't he?.

Sometimes you loose an all in and you are in a bad position with 1-2BB. I think ATC is quite good here.

But with 3-4 BB's.... when the blinds will have passed, my FE will be zero.
But pushing ATC in this situation is dangerous cause many regulars will call / overpush ii late positions with a lot of aces, broadways.
Don't realy know my ranges here.

Like pushing 50% if there is a regular last to act and pushing 70% if a normal/ fish is in the BB.



I think coaching would be very fine, but i don't know if my english is good enough for something like that. I would prefer a german coach.
Someone knows one?

try the coaching forum on twoplustwo. I am sure you will find a german coach

you are wrong sir

calling nash is always ev0 or better (must consider whole our range)
study something about game theory

So u are saying that when for example heads up calling with the nash equilibreum ranges is allways EV0 or better??
This can't be. If his range is TT+, Ak+ calling with nash ranges is def not EV0 or better..

I might have mistaken what u mean, but please do explain.

I think calling nash is a pretty big mistake vs randoms. Nash is EV0+ over all situations, it accounts for all the times he gives you a walk. If you call nash here its almost definitely -cEV for the hand. Nash protects you from being exploited but it should be you who is exploiting the random's tight pushing ranges.

Okay. So when you say nash is ev0 or better you count when he walks u? I think looking at nash this way is a mistake. When we are thinking about calling only his range and our pot odds should be taken into account.

If you have reads on the player then nash is not optimal but you still play at least ev0 in the long run. With no reads Nash is probably optimal.

without reads nash is not even close to optimal, without reads you should play under assumptions by assigning villains "average" or "common" ranges. for example (and there are many, but this is a simple one) but calling a random/unknowns shove 10BB effective HU with k2s is really bad even though it's part of nash. with no reads, this isn't optimal/the best decision and on average folding k2s is >>>>>>> calling. even if we are guaranteed to win 50%+ calling/shoving nash it doesn't mean we should do it.

calling nash is only guaranteed to be ev 0 or better because of the fact that if villain is pushing too tight and we still call him lightly (with the bottom of the nash range) we will lose on these calls, but thats made up for by the fact villain is giving us walks in this situation too much. that being said calling nash is basically ******ed (no offence) and doing it because it's guaranteed ev0 in the long run is just awful.. think about it more, it may seem like it can't be too bad since it's part of nash/unexploitable but it's not true at all. if a nit shoves utg and you reshove with the bottom of the nash range you are just burning money. or even if its hu, you are still burning money. i mean TECHNICALLY acidmanner is somewhat correct but there is literally no point at all in thinking about nash in this way..

It depends on what limit you play etc. If you say that a random is shoving tighter than nash on Limit XXX than this is some kind of a Read in my opinion. And when a nit shoves UTG we also have a Read. In todays games even at the 2.5$ level many players shove wider from late Position than the nash Ranges and you would be folding in tons of big +ev spots if you call tighter than nash and you would make their shoves highly profitable.
But its of course also true that there are tons of Spots where you have to deviate from Nash to exploit Nits etc. who shove too tight.

i just answered OP's question "how to call regs with <8 BBs or less BoB"

i do not say that calling strictly according nash in EVERY situation is the most +ev option. It is ok to call nash BoB when we are relative shortstacks but not vs utg 15BBs shoves

it's ok but still not good, even 8bb bvb

my experience is that most of regs shove wider than nash 8BB BoB so we MUST call close to nash vs regs imo