I used to play alot of $12 and $36 180s pre-BF. I'm starting to get things in order to move outside of the US within the next few weeks, and I'm unsure what to expect when i get off the ground again.

How difficult/easy are these compared to 18 months ago?
Are blind structures still the same?
Have the buy-in adjustments changed anything?
What ROI are solid 180 grinders attaining? How much $ per game?
What are the expected peak hours?

I'll prob have more questions

How difficult/easy are these compared to 18 months ago?
Cant compare since i didnt play these games 1.5 years a go but yeh they got a bit worse the last year.

Are blind structures still the same?
See above, have not seen any changes the last year.

Have the buy-in adjustments changed anything?
Nope.

What ROI are solid 180 grinders attaining? How much $ per game?
$80/hour or so. (15s: $3-$3.5 / game; 8s: $2 / game 3.5rs: $4-5/game)

What are the expected peak hours?
16:00 - 01:00 CET

^80$/h, typo?

On phone and cba to get exact calculations, but 80$/h would mean around 100k profit/year if playing 5h/day and taking weekends off. No1's getting over 70k profit this year.

Worse as in less profitable, or worse as in bad players?

What about $36s (or whatever that level changed too)? and $80 seems rly high, what abi and how many tables?

Seems a bit ( a lot really ) optimistic, even playing a massive amount of tables.

Haha okayokay maybe a bit optimistic. Still 30 tables an hour would be achievable right? $2.70 or so / game (def. Achievable mixing 15s and 3.5rs). But when i look at my hourly i have to agree its not even near 80/hour (but then again idont consider myself as a good player)

Oh and less profitable obv.

The best 180 grinders mix either MTTs or 45Mans and probably get 200K VPP a year so I suppose a few of them will be over 70K this year.

Then again, the question was about 180's..

But yeah someone is probably getting near to 70k with rakeback this year, if you're only counting 180's.

A lot more harder, touger and reg infested, but still beatable. If you´re asking if 40% ROI are attainable like 2 years ago the answer its no, there arent many players with a 25% ROI and better these days over a decent sample sizes.

Yep
Nope

15%-25% and for a $3r/$8/$15 regular with that ROIs can be making around $30/$35 per hour.

Had $24/hour with 2.5s only. $30 an hour with a 20% ROI at 3rs / 15s would mean that they play 10 tables an hour? So they're like 6 tabling.

Dont mean to be disrespectfull but this doesnt sound right, what was your ROI at the $2.50s? 100%? Sample?
Most of them are 15-18+ tableling

~ 40% 20 - 24 tabling. it aint that weird or am i missing something. When you 20-table continu you'll play like 25 games an hour or so? Average 2.5 game of mine is 49 minutes

You have to consider starting and ending sessions where you don't have many tables running and possibly even 1 tabling for half an hour. 40% isn't realistic long term in the 180s anymore.

$80 per hour....loooooooool. And my roi at 180s (abi $5) is 50% from 4.5k games this year so it must be possible

40% ROI playing 20-24 tables? Mmmmm sample size?

Audit your rebuys bro

Not enough to be significant (e.g. 25k+), true. But then again everyone who's playing >10k 2.5s is throwing money away imo.

And yeh perhaps that helped me achieving an higher hourly. I often seshed from 17 till ~ 01 (barely upstart en slow down time.)

I have a general question, figured I might as well ask here instead of starting a new thread, have a very small bank roll (50$) just wondering what of the pokerstars MTT would be best to start grinding\moving up to?

45 Turbos + 90 Turbos.

Thank you dolan, i'll start playing the .50c 45/90 turbos and see how it goes.

45s structure isn't the best, but good to build a roll from + higher stakes can help fill volume when you move to 180s. When I was building a 180/MTT roll, I added the 10c 360 man SNG, extremely soft field normally.

I just wish games ran during the time I could play. Need to decide if I want to learn 6 max hypers or 6 max zoom...

Hi,

I too was a fan of the 10c 360s. Took a few of em down. Moved on to 45s though where I was at my best pre BF. I am about to move countries and before I start a new thread would anyone care to answer about the $7 45 man expectations? I was about 17% pre black friday at the $3.50 45 mans and know ICM and push fold chip values pretty good though not expert.

Do you think 15% is attainable at the $7s these days (with someone of a decent background in 45s)?

Thanks

I've had a quick look at the last 120 days for the players in the top rated $2 to $5 levels on PStars. These are obviously the low stakes and just of the players that have allowed/shown roi. I checked their 46-180 scores (obv. mostly 90s or 180s maybe some MTTs, and used the estimated ra & bounty scores) and for the first 50 of them allowing roi they averaged 27% roi.
I did not take out any super high or super low ones (highest seen 81, lowest -14). A lot of players have higher overall roi due to playing big field MTTs, these often last for hours though so aren't all that profitable per hour, I used only the data given for 46-180.
I am not an expert on this but after doing it I think the best you should hope for is about 25-30% for the 180s.
25% after playing plenty of $3.5 180s will get you on or near the top 99.99% quartile for $2-5. It is probably more reasonable to expect to be able to sustain 20 to 25% if you are good. Or maybe this approach at gathering data is too flawed.
Don't forget this was looking at the $2-$5 buy-in level, I would assume at higher BIs would be harder to sustain high scores. (I used OPR data, the last player I used had a rank of 99.98% and was 117 out of 554,990)
Another thing to remember is this will have lots of bias in it, some of these players will be having a good 6 months for instance, it is too hard to try to check for volume but some/many will be quite low volume. I do not know how the OPR algorithm rates these players but I do think it does give extra for high volume.

20% ROI @ 2.50 180 mans = 50c profit per game. Quite easy to play 30 games an hour 20 tabling, so theoretically $15/hr is attainable at the lowest 180 mans. That's not accounting for ramp up/down of sessions and if enough games are running. Not a bad hourly if you can sustain 20% ROI.