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$8 180 / button shoves

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11-14-2011 , 04:03 AM

XoSkeleton

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 103

Ok so im pretty sure the 2nd one is a standard shove, but the 1st one i think is shove but i just want to make sure. The 1st hand is on the direct bubble i think, and the 2nd hand is when there was 14 players left.

Hand 1:
SB stats 16/3 (31 hands)
BB stats 23/0 (41 hands)

Poker Stars, $7.34 Buy-in (600/1,200 blinds, 125 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11050842

CO: 4,854 (4 bb)
Hero (BTN): 12,175 (10.1 bb)
SB: 12,125 (10.1 bb)
BB: 14,312 (11.9 bb)
MP1: 11,673 (9.7 bb)
MP2: 1,950 (1.6 bb)
MP3: 12,615 (10.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7

6 folds

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Hand 2:
SB stats 8/8 (8hands)
BB stats 16/3 (31 hands)

Poker Stars, $7.34 Buy-in (800/1,600 blinds, 150 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #11050852

MP2: 23,402 (14.6 bb)
MP3: 16,540 (10.3 bb)
CO: 13,445 (8.4 bb)
Hero (BTN): 16,153 (10.1 bb)
SB: 26,915 (16.8 bb)
BB: 17,700 (11.1 bb)
MP1: 10,074 (6.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 8

4 folds, Hero raises to 16,003 and is all-in, SB raises to 26,765 and is all-in, BB folds

Flop: (34,656) 8

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: (34,656) 2

(2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (34,656) 5

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

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11-14-2011 , 04:29 AM

arrtvandelay

banned

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 437

Depends on players acting after you. Both are shoves imo if blinds are randoms. Both are folds imo if both blinds are regs or loose players, and it's probably very close if we have a reg and a random in the blinds. In the second hand, I think Q8o plays poorly versus a calling range, therefore I wouldn't shove from the button without reads on the players.

11-14-2011 , 07:20 AM

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,065

First is generally a (very thin) shove/we aren't thrilled about it and can fold since it's marginalish vs. two randoms who aren't particularly loose, snap folding if either or both are decent regs

Second is generally a shove vs. most

With what reads were given (HUD stats) I would be shoving both in general, especially the second

11-14-2011 , 07:22 AM

arrtvandelay

banned

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 437

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMGClayDol

If blinds are regs is Q8o still a shove?

11-14-2011 , 07:53 AM

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,065

Well if you put 23% for SB and 26% for BB, both are pretty insanely loose and 95%+ of regs are not calling that wide, it's still +cEV by 0.1BBs. Which is of course really marginal, but obviously if they are tighter, which they will be 99% of the time it becomes better.

Whilst it's not optimal, just for a reference or whatever fwiw nash for cEV is

BU 39.4%, 22+ Ax+ K2s+ K8o+ Q6s+ Q9o+ J7s+ JTo T7s+ T9o 96s+ 86s+ 75s+ 65s 54s
SB 25.2%, 22+ A2s+ A5o+ K7s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QTo+ JTs
BB 32.1%, 22+ Ax+ K4s+ K8o+ Q8s+ QTo+ J9s+ JTo

Almost all regs aren't that wide (and they generally shouldn't be either, for various reasons such as it not being correct to play 100% cEV etc) even if they know you are a reg. BB never calls JTo etc

11-14-2011 , 09:54 AM

mysticpig

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 159

First is a fold when hand for hand.bubble factor kills it.

second fold or shove is both ok.

11-14-2011 , 12:22 PM

XoSkeleton

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 103

thanks for the comments guys, i folded 1st and shoved 2nd

11-14-2011 , 12:37 PM

furo

deviation of equilibrium

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 29,639

first with reads on tight calling ranges, readless i'd fold and just shove ~70-80%.
2nd is not close with any high card, basically the same spot.

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