can we really r/f this, he's reshoving me so light cause he doesn't know im reg since I just started playing the 3.5's
oh well now that I go through the situation again shoving 17 bbs with QT off into a reg isnt profittable I dont think

Well also I think shoving here makes him tigten up even more cause of ICM etc but hmm I still feel 17 bb into a decent same stacked reg bad with QT off

If he is 3betting you a lot and calling your 17bb shove with a somewhat correct range, I think our best option is to limp here.

QTo plays pretty well postflop.

EDIT: But he needs to be reshoving a ton before it is better to openjam then r/f though. And in that case r/c is prob. pretty close with openjamming in $EV.

Thanks for the comments! Alright I wouldn't limp vs a reg tbh, they smell weakness and shove alot wider then. Obv if they know im a reg I can do it since they can put me on AA, KK but yea I think minraise folding is the best option after all

Unless your limping range also consists of AA, KK, QQ, I hate the limp. I would exploit you by jamming 100% of my range here.

This is def a weird spot, you're too deep to shove. If BB is a reg he is gonna be shoving probably close to 100% over your limps. And shoving fairly wide over your raise.

I absolutely hate r/c and i think r/f is not a bad option.

1st choice: I would r/f, 2nd choice: I would just fold. That is my best thought.

Yeah, it is exploitable. But is the generel reg really going to exploit us?
If we know he is going to jam 100% over our limp, just limp/call (57,2% eq).

If the reg is both aggro against raises, limps and calls a correct range when we shove, all 3 options is prob. close to BE. But as it is, the generel reg is far too likely to chback or raise to 3x in this spot instead of shoving IMO.

Why would you fold pre, if limp/calling against a 75% jammer has 53,5% equity?
Or raise/fold if he jams 50%+? If he doesn't jam that wide over a limp then r/f is +EV.

Usually shoving so deep is bad, there are some regs that they wont 3bet shove to you for raising BVB. Most of them they will , so if i know that he is one of those who will 3bet shove to me super wide i will open shove this (not happy about that shoving so deep) since in cEV its unexploitable rather than raise/fold .

if he really is 3b shoving that wide bvb then yea shoving this is fine and unexploitable. that being said, you should make sure you arent being paranoid, ppl get way too paranoid about this kind of thing too often imo, you should see if he shows up with trash (e.g. if you raise call him because you had a premium or whatever and saw he reshoved k2o).

anyway depending on how wide you think he is being, you can adjust by shoving unexploitable hands like this and also raise/calling with a wider range, like KJo KTs 55+ Axo etc (which would normally be shoves or raise/folds)

edit: and raising less garbage/just open folding more stuff when it fold to you in the sb

r/c or r/f, dont openship this deep.

disagree, I don't think you can really warrant r/c QTo here.

Range vs 100%
Hand 0: 57.291% 55.95% 01.34% 14082444036 338143686.00 { QTo }
Hand 1: 42.709% 41.37% 01.34% 10412137392 338143686.00 { random }

Range vs super spazz 41% (22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T8s+, 98s, A2o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J9o+, T9o )

Hand 0: 44.631% 42.80% 01.83% 4186233444 179003814.00 { QTo }
Hand 1: 55.369% 53.54% 01.83% 5236439376 179003814.00 \

This hand has made me think, I keep leaning towards either open shoving or folding, but I feel like both limps and raises will be attacked frequently, yet have pro's that should be considered.

Without making this post too long, I'll just talk about the less common option, limping.

Obviously if you limp, you should see flops some % of the time, and you do lose less when your opponent raises, but you lose the chance to win the pot preflop. The thing though, is this hand is a lot stronger then an average hand so if you can make it to the flop enough you should be in a +ev situation. I believe you should consider this option, and here's why.
a, Your hand is made of big cards and you are shallow.
- this means, you will get in a lot of pair over pair situations where you have amazing equity with the higher pair much more often then the lower pair
b, Your hand flops a lot of draws where you will be able to apply multi street pressure.
- flops like 9Jx J8x k9x AJx you will be able to two barrel successfully a lot on these boards, your opponent will likely have the middle or bottom card and will not be able to face the pressure.
c, You get to test your opponents aggression level for not a large investment.
-I think this is often overlooked, but if you do limp and he snap shoves or say 3x's, you can make a mental note. Yes, you lose -.5bb but this information may come into play later in the tournament when you are short handed again.

Although you will have the positional disadvantage when you do flop something you'll likely have the betting lead with the best hand. That being said, obviously there is a flip side and it's important to mention.
-You will face coolers like 44T where you won't be able to get away from an opponents 4x.
-Some players will raise you preflop to 3x or 2.5x with nearly ATC.
-You are out of position, this is always something to mention even when shallow and position means less the positions are still meaningful

Overall I feel like is a +EV situation if you can get to the see the flop unraised enough. I feel like that # should probably be around 30% of the time, but I'm not sure how exactly to do the math on this. I also don't know if that's giving up too much and open jamming is more +EV. I do feel like vs the right players limping should be more +ev then open mucking though.

The counter argument will be, while if limping is more +ev then folding, is it more +ev then raising, and that's interesting. I feel like a lot of people will jam wider vs a raise open then a limp open because of all the added money in the pot, and if those opponents check back open limps then this is likely the situation when the limp should be considered.

Weird hand still... it's like open folding feels horrible, open jamming feels spewy but usually correct and open limping feels vulnerable. I want to hear more opinions.

If super spazz only jam 41% of hands we have a super profitable raise/fold. Can't ever see how this can be an openfold bvb with no extreme ICM considerations.

I'd r/f here, don't think many $3r regs shove near wide enough to make it unprofitable.

it's usually the opposite

just wish that you were 20 bigs effective so that you could limp/shove over his 3x with your randomish image weeee