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2.50 180 facing 3xpot shove on river 2.50 180 facing 3xpot shove on river

09-15-2015 , 08:11 PM
PokerStars - $2.28+$0.22|800/1600 Ante 150 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 17.67 BB
UTG: 11.25 BB (VPIP: 21.70, PFR: 16.55, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 628)
CO: 12.29 BB (VPIP: 16.93, PFR: 15.29, 3Bet Preflop: 7.04, Hands: 527)
BTN: 34.64 BB (VPIP: 30.61, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 49)
SB: 17.79 BB (VPIP: 14.96, PFR: 11.02, 3Bet Preflop: 9.62, Hands: 129)

5 players post ante of 0.09 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.97 BB) Hero has Q 8

fold, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, fold, Hero checks

Flop: (2.97 BB, 2 players) 8 A 4
Hero checks, BTN bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

Turn: (4.97 BB, 2 players) T
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (4.97 BB, 2 players) A
Hero checks, BTN bets 32.55 BB and is all-in,

Looking back on this hand it feels like a snap call. Is villain ever betting for value here? AF 3 AFq 62

Should I always be value betting river or is checking fine?
09-16-2015 , 12:15 AM
I think it's a fold unless you have a really specific read, with the stats it looks like it is a fun player (30vpip) limping button , i don't see why he would shove river on a pure bluff , has some random Ax(not likely but could have a2, a3,a4,a5 type hands / lots of Tx / random clubs in his hand maybe even 44 ? i find if a fun player goes from min betting in a hand to betting huge they have atleast top/mid pair , usually monster type hands

I feel , especially in a 2.50 180 man you will have better spots and if you fold you still have a bigger stack than two people at your table / manageable 15-16bb stack that you can play with
09-16-2015 , 01:24 AM
^ This

He either has an A that likes it's absolute hand strength (although the river probably reduces it's relative ranking), or most likely he backdoored the flush.

A weak ace may check behind the turn, but TBH his line doesn't have to make sense at this buy-in level and with these stats, he just has it. If he does this again against someone else though observe the showdown and make notes if it isn't a monster.
09-16-2015 , 10:57 AM
If he's value betting why would he bet so huge when it's obvious once I check the river I have a weak hand like a 4 or 8? A 3xpot bet seems sized to get me to fold exactly what I had. If he had trips or flush surely he would bet smaller.

He didn't bet the turn which I expect most players to do with an Ace, even if its just a min bet. He would also semi bluff the turn with FD a decent amount of the time. He was loose/pass pre but not postflop - AF3 AFq 62.

Considering the bet size, small number of value hands and the obvious weakness of my hand, isn't it more likely that he's bluffing?
09-16-2015 , 02:06 PM
^ You could turn it around and say that why risk so much when he can bluff cheaper.

Your reasoning is basically sound, but that means you should call, which means he should do this only for value, which means you should fold, which means he should do this as a bluff, which means you should call .... etc. it's a levelling game.

Unknown fun players are generally on the level that they have what they perceive to be the nuts so they are going to get as much money in as possible. They tend not to bluff rivers much if at all.

In the past, against players I thought respected me and I thought were good enough to think about it I have overbet jammed TPWK in this (villain's) kind of spot because of the gameflow I knew they would see it as bluffy and time down before calling with middle pair. Other times you think you can get them out with a big bet.
09-18-2015 , 03:56 AM
Fold and wait for a better spot. Save your tournament life.

      
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