180man turbo. Is this push or fold? - Page 2 - MTTSNG -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

one "good" thing that isn't considered is the fact that if you bust you now don't have to post the BB (or sb the following hand) the next hand. it's not a huge deal but worth considering. i think this was something "MUD" brought up a while ago.

wait what?!

12-09-2011 , 10:16 PM

#27

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,060

def not shoving atc.

anyway all players will have a negative winrate in the BB. therefore if we bust we avoid a negative expectation situation. obviously it's not like we should do something stupid just to bust so we don't have to post our blinds or whatever but you get the point

12-09-2011 , 11:12 PM

#28

phos77

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 5,496

and how's your winrate when you've bust?

i don't get the point.

12-10-2011 , 12:30 AM

#29

fernythrills

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,152

Awice <3

12-10-2011 , 02:28 AM

#30

shiptwodolla

stranger

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 12

Yeah wtf how can busting be better than posting bb?

12-10-2011 , 03:04 AM

#31

adventurer

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,371

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Ice

I went into nash calculator beta and I chose the nittiest calling ranges imaginable: 8%,9%,10%,11%,19%,25%, and I still got that 75o was -cev.

These are not the nittiest calling ranges imaginable.Lots of times players will be calling far much nittier than this.Lazy to put it into wiz now,but I don´t think it may be very -cEV with real calling ranges.

I think the key question would be: ¿How could we quantify the value of having more fold equity from sb,butt,CO,etc next hands?
If we have a $3k stack with blinds 500/1k or 600/1200 we have almost 0 FE
If we have a $5k we have much more FE
The value of stealing withouth showdowns after the blinds is too high and makes the 75 push worth imho,as this may compensate if the push is a little -cEV..

12-10-2011 , 04:41 AM

#32

OMGClayDol

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11,060

wtf i specifically said it's NOT a big deal and "obviously it's not like we should do something stupid just to bust so we don't have to post our blinds or whatever but you get the point" but it's definitely worth considering! it means that a pure cev calculation ignores the -slight- advantage of not posting bb next hand..... i'm not explaining this again and people don't get it then whatever, it's a small point compared to the rest of the discussion anyway.

and yeah also +1 to adv

12-10-2011 , 09:15 AM

#33

Cpt.Hero

adept

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,020

But you could also say that we should shove tighter because we will often get a +ev situation in the next 2 hands and therefore can fold this -ev spot. Its a psychological thing . People dont want to call of with bad hands but rather make kamikaze shoves with ATC. And its very likely that we get a better hand than 75o in the BB. I see every day that some nitty players shove Trash Hands with no fold equity because they dont want to take the BB anymore

i know that we have some FE in this sit<uation but some players take it to an extreme with shoving loose and calling tight.

12-11-2011 , 01:09 AM

#34

NuklearWinter

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,735

Since you are in the money, I'd probably ship it about 25% of the time, depending on the table.

Also, If I have been folding a lot and the table is tight/not calling wide then I'd jam. However if I have a bad image on the table and expect to get called more frequently I will fold.

Close to the bubble I'd just dump it and call off a lot in the BB or wait and jam 3bbs from some other position.

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