PokerStars - $2.28+$0.22|15/30 Ante 4 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 1,482 (VPIP: 16.00, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 50)
UTG+1: 1,472 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
MP: 1,406 (VPIP: 23.66, PFR: 17.05, 3Bet Preflop: 10.81, Hands: 93)
MP+1: 1,433 (VPIP: 14.83, PFR: 13.32, 3Bet Preflop: 5.73, Hands: 423)
MP+2: 1,509 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
Hero (CO): 1,497
BTN: 1,392 (VPIP: 12.20, PFR: 10.26, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 42)
SB: 2,011 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
BB: 1,298 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

9 players post ante of 4, SB posts SB 15, BB posts BB 30

Pre Flop: (pot: 81) Hero has 7 8

fold, UTG+1 calls 30, fold, fold, MP+2 calls 30, Hero raises to 120, fold, SB calls 105, fold, UTG+1 calls 90, fold

Flop: (456, 3 players) A 7 7
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets 273, SB calls 273, fold

Turn: (1,002, 2 players) J
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (1,002, 2 players) 6
SB bets 1,614 and is all-in, Hero ?

just an ordinary early phase 180man
villain(s) is(are) unknown so i can't say anything about image/tendencies.
would a bigger than 60% bet OTF make a differance?
what would you do OTR?
Thank you!

Preflop is a bit to fancy for me. I either limp along or fold. Early stage 180s 2,50$ sooo many weak players giving it away.. but it is not terrible ofcourse..

Flop fine.

Turn is close but i think i might just ship, still enough Ax with or without a heart will call ..

River.. sighhh call i guess i don't think i can fold this, but can't really tell/explain which one is correct, only hands that we are losing to that make sense are KQs, KTs and maybe JJs or 66s .. think with 2-1 (ish) we are good often enough..

Im finding this hand interesting. Firstly let me say i think my preflop shove fold game is a lot better then my post flop play so this is all just my opinion.

Technically you have trips not a set. The difference between the two can be massive. In this spot the difference is not so much as not many 7x in your range.

I would only call pre and take this as multiway as possible. with the bigest stacks behind as possible.

If you want to raise to fold out hands pre then i would make it 150 minimum as at these stakes at these depths your not going to fold out much pre.

dont mind 60 percent bet on flop its consistent with Ax which is obviously a larger part of your range.

Readless I would sigh fold river. Dont think a random would bluff shove this large often enougth when you could get sticky with so many Ax hands.

You have stronger then most of your perceived range here and in general the closer to the top of our range we have the more often we should call. But here 78 is only a bluff catcher the same as AK AQ even AJ would be.

He likely is shoving for value with a flush, there are some boats in his range mainly 76, He could conceivably be shoving with the other 7 all of which either beat us or we split the pot with. The only thing we could be some times ahead of are some weak AX that no longer have kicker problems like a10 a9. but with the shove sizing i dont think we will see these often enougth.

Personally in game I know I would of bet the turn for value as going to get called by Ax and maybe some mid pairs with a heart. Interestingly this would change the stack to pot ratio and i would proably have to call river which means given the information we have now i would probably be going bust with this hand. I would also have to call a shove on the turn if he shoved on me there after i raised but in that scenario there can be some (not many) semi bluffs in his range as well as we do have at least some equity vs flushes about 20%.

Looking in review maybe pot controling with your hand on turn does have some advantages but Im thinking your allowing so many hands to outdrawer you for free.

I think the most important thing about this hand is that we are unknown to villain and so at this buy-in he could not be sure he would be folding out Ax which is what it looks like we have.

Im interested to what others have to say on this hand as your hand would not be in my range here due to my tendencies pre flop.

I type to long and see where has in the mean time suggesting shoving the turn which looking at the stack sizes again i really like shoving the turn for value here.

As played I disagree that those hands he lists are all we are losing to though, as i think there are more suited hands in viallins range. We are readless and just have to go with player pool tendencies and im thinking there is a lot of fish that overvalue suitedness pre flop especially when we start of so deep.

Also we do have a very very early read on villain that he has a vpip of 50% pfr 0% so we are in the 7 th hand and villain has paid to see a flop 3/6 times without ever raising once.
I know some regs wouldnt even consider 6 hands of data significant but i think it does suggest this player is likely to be more fish then reg. ( and in this example we can put more suited cards in his range pre flop)

Thank you guys for your time and effort to answer.

Same here, mate. That's why i posted

you have a point here (y)
Yep. Looks like someone was hoping for some validation for an unprofitable bad decision. Carry on, Teo! ^_^

Actually, this is just under bottom of my raising range from CU. Giving the fact it was the first day after a 10-day retreat, raising chart in my head just got some leaks. So yeah, better call pre here.

Is it just me or it's a contradiction here?

yeah fish overvalue suitedness so when we shove the turn for value we will get called by flushes sometimes which they will have more then they should. But there is still worse that can call us namely some suited aces maybe some other Ax some mid pairs one heart etc

When we check turn and they overpot shove river on what should be a brick now they are shoving its a whole different scenario as they have taken another action and indeed its a very aggressive one.

When we are on turn considereing a shove we cant possibly know that if we check river after checking turn Villain will shove on what should be a brick.

Also when we shove turn and the fish does have a flush we do still have about 20% equity .

I agree w/ URagnatha.

I'd call preflop rather than raising.
For is to be an easy shove on the turn you want to bet the flop a bit bigger!
It might be kind of a dry board but you are still 3 way. Make it 350 OTF and watch the Ax part of his range call your turn shove

I think you should probably be going broke on this hand. I dont mind your flop sizing as you have a clear value target and it leaves you a psb for the turn. I probably jam the turn as the Ace is still a clear value target.
As played tho you can potentially get away from the hand, but it is hard to tell when you get such varying ability early on in a tourney without concrete reads.
Villain is rarely bluffing here and should not be betting worse. They are probably c/c or c/f their top pair hands and a river overbet like this reeks of a flush trying to make up for lost turn value. As already said above, your hand is basically a bluff catcher so I dont think a fold on the river as played is bad.
I am no post (or pre!) flop master so just my two cents.

Thank you Kurt , Atkin, URagnatha and WhereMyGrinders@ for answering.

When you check behind turn its because you don't think he will stack off with much that you beat, and by "playing dead" for a street after betting your entire range on the flop, you make him willing to stack off with more - whether from him betting/bluffing or him bluffcatching your bet on the end. Now call again getting 2-1 on this non heart river.

If you got coolered so be it - but your range looks like air here and when you are beating some of his value combos you should call.

Doesn't our range have a lot of pot controlling Ax in it as well as mid pairs. I don't think our range really looks like air. OK maybe kq and some extra random stuff .but. as the pre flop aggressor our range includes a lot of Ax.

Yes we are getting good pod odds but I just think with the ace on board hitting our range this fish is going to be value shoving a flush super frequently on river. I fold river as played but then I would not of raised pre.

Mine doesn't - I would outright check A with no kicker on the flop (even with the flush draw out there, though I don't know if that's good, I never know what to do when the third one comes on the turn) as well as TT+, basically the hands I want two streets with.

I might play 88, 99, maybe TT this way to clear off random overs on the flop. 66- I would be more likely to limp behind preflop. Maybe I could have AJ+ too.

Yes there are some good hands we can have - also a turn jack hoping to get to showdown or a weak flush that is afraid it can't get but we still have all the air too that made a single c-bet. If we are calling with the top 2/3 of our range here then this is too strong to fold - it beats a few of his value hands even. How much air we have depends a bit how wide hero is isolating pre versus limping behind.

Debatable iso pf.

Would choose same line bet flop/check on turn.

On river i would think we have to call with 2:1 when we need be good 33% because i can easily see opponent on hand like AJ/AQ/AT/7x we split/Rare random additionally to also likely flush.

I also prefer the limp preflop.

BTW I spotted an error in my earlier post. If he is betting pot all in then he has evens odds so we need to call 50 percent - I still think this is in the top 50% of our range though.

I can see the argument for a call on the river but I dont see what worse hands Villain gets there with that he then shoves. He called the flop bet with UTG+1 still to act and the only strong draw otb is the flush. So V should generally get to the river with Ax, 7x, flush draws and maybe some pocket pairs. Everything but the flush I would expect V to try and get to show down as cheaply as possible.
If the flop had been heads up there is more air in V's range but as played out I would heavily weight his river bet as being for value...all of which probaby beats hero's.

No mine doesnt have that many ax in it either as played but that doesnt really matter its what the fish thinks we could have. To a fish I think they see us having the ace very often. Hes probably not ranging exactly hes proabably thinking that hero will call a shove if he has ak or similair.

For the people saying the pot odds mean we have to call river can i just ask would you also call with AK then?

For the record im not saying river is definatly a fold its just what i would do. But if people argue for calling with trips no kicker im guessing they would call with AK. As in relation to the villains range, with this action, they are exactly the same in my opinion.

^ They're not quite the same, because the 7 blocks full house combos that beat both hands whereas AK blocks some of the weaker Aces both hands are supposed to be beating (the weaker player can desperation shove an A here).

BTW I agree its close, it may well be a fold.

I like the flat pre then pounding out the streets I would have a hard time folding this because im a station