The crux of this seems to be "how can you say the things here to defend Lock if you think its going under" and the answer is I know its not going under so I dont have a problem.

We currently have an environment where everyone is on edge so every crazy theory is picked up and ran with. I dont have an intimate knowledge of the Revolution to skins payments, but what I do know is that Lock is the huge majority on the network, with payments to the network that dwarf every other room and our payments are on time. So it seems very strange that will all of that money coming in skins aren't being paid.



Fair Play = financial problems is ridiculous. Because if thats the case then both Bodog and Party are also in deep financial trouble because they launched systems to protect recreational players before we did.

Do cashouts need improving yes, all we can do is keep chipping away at that and working toward our target of getting cashouts back to our fast times in 2 months. Unfortunately we cannot fix cashouts immediately, if we were to wire the full amount we need to cashout through say Moneybookers today to cover all current cashouts there would be some VERY large red flags going up on the financial transactions and we would put all of the funds at risk.

And finally I'd love any info anyone has on under-the-table deals. I personally hate them and my role in the past 2 years at Lock has been working with the affiliate marketing team and I personally terminated anyone offering under-table-deals. With the rewards allowed in our current setup there is no need for under-the-table deals, if you cant get players to sign up with the available offers then you shouldn't be in affiliate marketing. You don't give away the house to sell the land.

so you have the money but you just cant send it. like everleaf I guess you must dribble out a little here and there enough to make it look like your paying out something. you don't want to raise them red flags, yea I believe that way better to sit on players funds then send it, maybe someday in future you will be able to send it to players. maybe fair play will slow it down enough to catch you up.

As Ive stated previously, if you know a way to process cashouts faster for Americans now is the time to get started and start up your own payment processor. You would make a killing.

Also you really cant compare Revolution to Everleaf, Everleaf failed because they never had the liquidity to get any traction so they could never get enough new traffic coming in to support their business, so when it started failing they got greedy. Revolution and especially Lock are doing very well in new signups so we have a stable base to grown and build on.

Do we have areas that need working on, yes. Do cashouts need to get faster, yes and they will.

sorry im a little slow you said you couldn't send large amounts any way , you know the red flag thing now you say its the processor . if I was processer what good is it if you cant ship the money to me.

Well, the statement from the network, about AdamevePoker is being predatory site, which is based on the fact that AE is giving correct information to its customers doesn`t look good to me at all. Shane as a representative of Lock Poker said, that my post have been factually incorrect, and that it’s based more on my growing displeasure with the network – which is not true, as we at AE (and me personally) do not care about the pleasure here at all! This is business and only thing I want is to serve my players and affiliates as good as possible. Our statement always has been and still is - Awesome support and Fast Withdrawals.
For three years of successful operations we became one of the biggest and well known poker rooms in Russia, Ukraine and Bulgaria, this is also because of the help from our key partners. We made enormous amount of freerolls, races, private promotions, gadget races and much more.

So in that situation, where network delays with the settlement transfers for more than 120 days, but our expenses are growing all the time, because rake generated is growing and win/loss is growing too (due to chip dump from the other slow cash-out skins on Revolution Network) we need to use our own money, as we are using our own cashier.

Just imagine, player registered, made a deposit $1000 won a tournament $10 000 for a first place, generated rake on ring tables in amount of $1000 with an average win/loss of $300. Player earned 36% Rakeback which is paid every Wednesday without any delays, First deposit bonus which is credited to players account automatically, so the picture here is, that player will have more than $12 000, but in fact we have only $1000 on our Skrill account, so this is only with a one player.
Another situation we have a player that made a first deposit of $1000 and raked $10 000. On Wednesday he will receive his 36% RB which equals to $3 600 + first deposit bonus which will be $2 000 and his win/loss for that period was $0. Logically player will request a withdraw of these funds, in fact we are having only $1000 in our account, while customer due to our best service on Revolution has $6 600 ($1000 his deposit, $3600 as a rakeback and $2000 first deposit bonus)
Note, that here we do not count 8%-12% to the affiliate.

So what I would like to clarify here is that it’s not about winning players at all, we can cover their winnings as their winnings are not that high, but we are not in a position to cover the whole amounts of bonuses, Rakeback, bounty and other networks promotion stuff.
And we where going through the network rules, where we cannot find any single word about win/loss ratios which network skin has to have, but still we're doing our best to fight it by bringing softer players.

Just to clarify, the statement that AE is predatory isn't based on the information you are giving players. This statement is based on the continual infractions of the network rules and your predatory practices in relation to player acquisition.

No the point I was trying to make there is that there is an assumption that its easy to move funds, which Im countering and saying its not.

my point is questioning if lock has players funds is reasonable. they move and buy cake , offer crazy rake back and promos , sign pros . where does the money come from , how can you operate on that thin of margins, sometimes if the deal is to good to be true it prob is. The cost of processer funds in and out esp usa players. Then the start of delay payment times which seems to increase daily, now up to 4 months for usa players , plus row payments times are slow now. Then you change your business model to fair play because the reg model wasn't working . Throw in the ae not getting paid in 4 months leads me to truly believe, you don't have players fund, I guess im crazy. I want to be wrong because if im right my friends and fellow players will be the ones out the money.

That seems to be the case for many things.

If your payments to the network are seemingly on time, why is this still not the case for your withdrawals to players?

Lets not compare Lock with companies that know what they are doing, okay? In case you haven't noticed, almost all sites and networks have their own ways of protecting recreational players.
How come other sites are capable to do this without raising flags? Unless of course your funds are not segregated ...
With your rewards system its also not possible to make much profit off the high volume players either, but I guess you forget that part of the equation.
That is a very interesting statement, so what exactly are you doing then with giving away more than 80% effective rakeback for the top tier?
It actually is if the funds are segregated.
And what exactly did Lock do on the Merge Gaming Network? You are the wrong site to accuse others of doing it given your past (and current) strategies to recruit new players

Well ACR/BCP, BODOG, and Intertops have all figured it out. Why can't Lock or whoever else is left on the Revolution network?

im not certain but lock has more players then those u listed.

with that said i am still confused why a debit card option has not been figured out. atleast for a smaller group of the site to alleviate the overall strain on wu.

Shane, how you can call someone predatory without any evidence brought to the table?

if I would be Jennifer I would snap fire you, because of that statement.

Shane, please bare in mind that I am not attacking to you, I am just really confused about your statements about the payments and everything else, all of them are countless of promises.

Well Shane, First of all, I would like to clarify that all the network rules related cases that we had in the past where settled by AdamevePoker with the network and now it’s a past! To take all the successful that was done there was only TWO minor cases.

Really enjoy of reading this thread. Thank you Anton for honesty. I hope same from Shane.

A couple of important points.

1. The Lock Pro deals aren't the bag of cash type deals players might get from other sites. There is an assumption that we spend huge amounts of money on the Lock Pro team but this just isnt the case.

2. The margins aren't as this as people think. Everyone talks about the theoretical 100% rakeback they can earn between the VIP program and promotions, but that is only theoretical. The percentage of players who actually achieve this are minuscule.

3. The fair play model and other recreational player protection models arent related to the financial situation of a room, they related to creating a better long term plan to improve the experience of players that in many ways make up the silent majority.


Unlike Anton I dont make these posts without first clearing them with everyone above me, that includes both Jennifer as well as the guys who run the network.

The evidence will never be brought to the forum, as it shouldnt. As Ive said previously I would have preferred to have stayed completely out of this but as Anton continues to post in the Lock forum the network has approved some statements for me on the matter.

Did you ever think that maybe the information is coming from above and then to Shane?

Actually I do. Shane seems in my eyes nice guy. I actually think some 1 of 2 people upper Shane is making him to write these posts here. I really hope Shane will quit the job some day and tell the truth about all this. Maybe Shane need this Lock job so bad that he cant quit it just like that?

The payment questions are not so hard actually if you keep players balance segerated, I have done that myself and I know how it works. Balancing is not hard at all and should take max 48h = that is the reason why some pokerrooms have 72h cashout time frame. I can bet 1:1 with someone who want that Lock have major financial problems. Could be because of DOJ/seized funds.

Bitcoins

Shane's response to that is a article written over a 1.5yr ago about a US Senator trying to shutdown Bitcoins

If I eventually leave poker and write my memoirs the 2+2 chapter will be called "Just because its the truth doesnt mean anyone will believe you on the internet."

Ive been over the segregation subject so many times, but one thing to correct is that segregation aids the moving of funds. Moving funds and segregation aren't as closely tied as players seems to assume. Segregation doesn't allow the instant transfer of funds, segregation is about the separation of player funds and operating funds and the idea that players funds are always safe. We have never not paid a player, payments might be slow sometimes but all players are eventually paid.

your funds are safe and secure iv heard that one. lets see we have always paid in the past, classic ftp post black Friday. a lot of them reps said and believed it to. The everleaf lines are we will pay out takes time 6 months to years. may I suggest a title, how I was duped as poker site rep by shane.

There is still hope for your chapter to be called "How Lock Poker pleasantly surprised me"

I know that our industry is a mess of people doing the wrong thing, and I realise thats why people will always expect the worst. All we can do is keep pushing forward and eventually prove everyone wrong.

I would be shocked . im hoping lock does pay . ill be happy to say you was right. But other than paying players , no words will make me believe otherwise.

Any job over there? $75k a year seems legit!

Really Shane???? Pokerstars does it right..... There is a reason why we always think the worst of LOCK because history has shown us to...

LOCK should take a page out of Pokerstars, it's really not to difficult to run a good company... Lock has only to blame themselves for running such a questionable business...

Good Luck to you sir...