SEPTEMBER PROMOTIONS - Page 8 - Two Plus Two

The point Bob is making, and which I agree with him on, is how long did you expect them to be able to give away 100% rakeback? The fact remains that they are still adding value that exceeds what most players can get elsewhere. Yes, it is less than their obviously unsustainable last couple months of Ronin, but you are still complaining about being given extra money.

If you can get better value elsewhere, then go play there. If you can't, then be happy you are still getting a lot of value at Lock. Stars and FTP would never give out the type of value that is still achievable with VIP/BOTK/Deposit Bonus.

I think there are so many things to complain about with regard to Lock right now, but the amount of free money they are giving you should not be one of them IMO.

Last edited by LTT777; 08-31-2012 at 01:32 PM. Reason: Started posting mine before Bob's was posted, so a bit redundant now

08-31-2012 , 01:42 PM

#177

konar

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 515

To compare Revolution to Stars is pretty pointless imo. The reality is that Revolution in its current state offers a pretty sub-par product in pretty much every way. This was offset by extremely good player rewards while they fix their product. Now that the rewards have been dramatically reduced and almost all of the flaws of the network remain, someone with a good rakeback deal on Merge(or the ability to play on Pokerstars at SNE level) has a greatly reduced incentive to continue playing on Revolution. This is especially true if you have any interest whatsoever in playing non DON SNGs.

Last edited by konar; 08-31-2012 at 01:47 PM.

08-31-2012 , 01:46 PM

#178

MicroBob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 61,575

That was a point of mine as well. Of all the things to complain about at Lock, this is actually not one of them.

What's weird is I get the impression that people wouldn't complain if the reload thing were taken away. "Oh bummer. Oh well." Change the thing that is worth less than that while leaving the reload in place "OMG. boycott!"

08-31-2012 , 01:48 PM

#179

MicroBob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 61,575

Konar, the rewards have not been dramatically reduced. That's the point. Ronin has been trimmed but the overall value remains extremely high.

08-31-2012 , 01:54 PM

#180

konar

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 515

I concede the value is still high. The reduction is significant, but "dramatically" may have been overstating it. My point was just that every grinder has their own individual calculus of what value makes it worth it to them to endure some of the shortcomings of the network. It is not implausible that this reduction would tip the scales in the favor of Merge or Stars, for a SNG grinder in particular. I say this without any clue of the details of the announced SNG leaderboard, which could potentially more than compensate.

08-31-2012 , 01:57 PM

#181

dfsuperstar

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,417

Well for me this is going to hit about a 500-600 difference and only making 2200 last month and playing so much I must say I probably won't be playing as much because of this.

I'll just enjoy a vacation and hope Ronin comes back next month.

08-31-2012 , 01:59 PM

#182

konar

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 515

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfsuperstar

I would echo Bob's point here that there is a potential that the deposit bonus could end, resulting in a larger reduction in value for you. Something to consider.

08-31-2012 , 02:06 PM

#183

LTT777

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,264

Quote:

Originally Posted by konar

I agree with this. Not a very good point on my part. It was a response to someone earlier in the thread saying they wish they had Stars to play on because they were upset value was reduced. As you pointed out I should have added that there are other factors that need to be considered.

The point I do stand by however is the value is still greater than Stars is offering or FTP ever offered. If it isn't worth it to you now, go play elsewhere. Complaining about the amount of free money they give out is silly to me. I have had the opportunity to exceed 100% rb by a considerable margin since Lock switched over from Merge. But I begrudgingly stayed on Merge because their product was and is significantly better. And like you said, especially if you play non DON sngs.

I get that it sucks to lose value, and it really sucks that Lock waited to the last minute to tell you you were losing value. But it is still a massive amount of value. If the value you still get isn't worth the headache of Lock, then play elsewhere.

I for one think it is a slightly positive thing that they reduced value. I would be starting to wondering about a Ponzi Scheme if they were able to continue giving out 100%+ for an extended period of time. I at least have a small amount of confidence they are interested in sticking around and giving people their money long term.

Last edited by LTT777; 08-31-2012 at 02:08 PM. Reason: grammars

08-31-2012 , 02:07 PM

#184

The Drifter

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,436

Quote:

Originally Posted by konar

I say this without any clue of the details of the announced SNG leaderboard, which could potentially more than compensate.

We don't yet know for sure if it's a SNG leaderboard. The BOTK page calls it a "tournament leaderboard". Shane referred to it as a SNG leaderboard, but that may have been a mistake, it may have been changed, or it may have been delayed. I wish Shane would actually post in this thread with some information. Will it start in 6 hours? Seems unlikely at this point.

08-31-2012 , 02:07 PM

#185

MicroBob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 61,575

Konar, I don't think anywhere on merge or stars is even close to the value that a higher volume player has on lock.

Some players on lock were over 100% rakeback for crying out loud.

If you can get 60-80% on merge or stars then by all means go for it. For those of you who are saying, " no way. You aren't getting that much on lock" I say learn the math before you complain.

If you are aware that you are getting 70% or something and are still complaining then more power to you I guess. Go where you can get 80% instead I guess.

08-31-2012 , 02:12 PM

#186

konar

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 515

My point is that there is a whole lot more to a site's overall value to you than what effective rakeback % they are giving you. I wouldn't grind SNGs on Lock exclusively as is with 200% rakeback, for example.

08-31-2012 , 02:26 PM

#187

justin

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,522

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroBob

If you are aware that you are getting 70% or something and are still complaining then more power to you I guess. Go where you can get 80% instead I guess.

One problem is most regs currently have to pay .20% vig to get money off the site, so that reduces rakeback value. The other problem is Shane hasn't confirmed anywhere that the bonus will clear at the same rate next month or how long it will continue. Once deoposit bonus is gone and lock hasn't updated their software, we'll be left with marginally better rakeback and a software that has alot of bugs and doesn't even support a table finder program yet.

For now though I agree. Getting near 100% rakeback is still more compensation that any other site will provide

08-31-2012 , 02:28 PM

#188

BrianRx74

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 458

Shane

I would love to see another column for Knights that calculates total rake like Ronin did. Yes, I could just pull out a calculator, but an additional column would be easier.

08-31-2012 , 02:40 PM

#189

BlackFr1day

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,629

Haha I almost switched from RB to VIP just because of the hype that it was gonna be way bigger than Ronin - I CAN DODGE BULLETS, BABY!

08-31-2012 , 02:43 PM

#190

Mccormick

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,982

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackFr1day

Haha I almost switched from RB to VIP just because of the hype that it was gonna be way bigger than Ronin - I CAN DODGE BULLETS, BABY!

Depending on what your MGR is, but you more than likely have already eaten whole ammunition already by not being VIP.

08-31-2012 , 02:50 PM

#191

booger369

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,542

do math. take maneys

08-31-2012 , 02:56 PM

#192

IWantYrCookies

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 74

I'm not trying to be greddy and I understand what everyone is saying. I guess I just hate how this promo is gonna BLOW RONIN out of the water wtf?!?! More hype without delivering. Yes the rake was amazing before but it had to be or no one would play on a site that literally doesn't answer e-mails lol.

08-31-2012 , 03:11 PM

#193

Jermz

adept

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,003

Aren't there going to be leader boards associated with BOTK? Which will add value to the overall promotion.

08-31-2012 , 03:25 PM

#194

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianRx74

Shane

I would love to see another column for Knights that calculates total rake like Ronin did. Yes, I could just pull out a calculator, but an additional column would be easier.

+1

FWIW:

August Ronin

Code:

Total Rake      Effective Rakeback (assuming every level is earned)
    $10.00	15.00%
    $30.00	15.00%
    $60.00	15.83%
   $100.00	19.50%
   $150.00	21.33%
   $210.00	22.38%
   $280.00	23.04%
   $360.00	23.47%
   $450.00	23.78%
   $550.00	28.55%
   $700.00	31.00%
   $900.00	33.00%
 $1,150.00	34.52%
 $1,450.00	35.66%
 $1,850.00	38.76%
 $2,350.00	40.09%
 $2,950.00	42.10%
 $3,650.00	43.62%
 $4,450.00	44.76%
 $5,350.00	45.64%
 $6,350.00	46.33%
 $7,600.00	49.24%
 $9,100.00	51.56%
$11,100.00	53.53%
$13,600.00	56.56%
$16,600.00	58.39%
$20,100.00	59.41%
$24,100.00	59.93%
$28,600.00	60.11%
$33,600.00	60.10%
$39,100.00	59.95%
$45,100.00	59.74%
$51,600.00	61.32%
$58,600.00	64.24%
$66,600.00	67.78%

Knights

Code:

     $10.00	20.00%
     $35.00	17.14%
     $70.00	17.14%
    $120.00	16.67%
    $180.00	16.67%
    $250.00	16.80%
    $330.00	16.97%
    $420.00	17.14%
    $520.00	17.69%
    $670.00	17.01%
    $870.00	16.55%
  $1,120.00	16.43%
  $1,395.00	16.42%
  $1,695.00	17.05%
  $2,020.00	18.02%
  $2,370.00	18.95%
  $2,745.00	19.82%
  $3,145.00	20.48%
  $3,645.00	21.10%
  $4,245.00	21.65%
  $4,945.00	22.12%
  $5,745.00	22.52%
  $6,645.00	22.86%
  $7,645.00	23.14%
  $8,745.00	23.66%
  $9,945.00	24.07%
 $11,245.00	24.40%
 $12,645.00	24.67%
 $14,145.00	24.88%
 $15,745.00	25.05%
 $17,445.00	25.19%
 $19,245.00	25.30%
 $21,145.00	25.39%
 $23,145.00	25.57%
 $25,245.00	25.82%
 $27,445.00	26.12%
 $29,745.00	26.37%
 $32,145.00	26.58%
 $34,645.00	26.75%
 $37,245.00	26.90%
 $39,945.00	27.08%
 $42,745.00	27.24%
 $45,645.00	27.48%
 $48,645.00	27.84%
 $51,745.00	28.49%
 $54,945.00	29.20%
 $58,245.00	29.95%
 $61,645.00	30.73%
 $65,145.00	31.54%
 $68,745.00	32.36%
 $72,445.00	33.19%
 $76,245.00	34.03%
 $80,145.00	34.87%
 $84,145.00	35.71%
 $89,145.00	36.17%
 $95,145.00	37.57%
$102,145.00	39.40%
$110,145.00	41.08%

08-31-2012 , 03:31 PM

#195

MicroBob

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 61,575

Quote:

Originally Posted by IWantYrCookies

Nobody at lock said this was going to blow ronin out of he water. There was virtually no hype for this at all.

They said "better" and I certainly disagree with that. But other than that they said nothing so basically...Wtf are you talking about?

08-31-2012 , 03:34 PM

#196

catlax30

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 646

so they decided to take 20% from the grinders that keep the games going all day every day and give it to people who just complain on forums instead of playing poker on their site, maybe if all the grinders quit for a month and post here instead they will change it back.....

I made an excel file with the numbers from the website and the numbers max cut posted if anyone wants it pm me and I will email it to you

08-31-2012 , 03:44 PM

#197

Max Cut

Guest

Posts: n/a

Shane did say it would be better than Ronin, which was obviously intentionally ambiguous (since he didn't know the details at the time).

Is is better at the bottom levels, both in the number of awards available and the effective rakeback (at the first few levels).

It is what it is and I personally have no qualms with it other than the late announcement of the details. I have to lol at a high raker that feels so butt hurt going from probably 157% rakeback down to 130%.

Leaderboard details, please??

08-31-2012 , 04:23 PM

#198

NxtWrldChamp

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9,082

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

As a whole, it's almost definitely "better" for the entire player pool. Just not for huge volume grinders.

08-31-2012 , 04:29 PM

#199

bataa3

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 77

Botk is about half of what ronin was for serious grinders (vip elite), I must say it's a huge disappointment considering how Botk was advertised better. I switched to VIP late august and was super excited to grind expecting Sep promo was at least comparable to Aug. How they hid the total rake column is not helping either. 50% haircut is a little steep although I realize Lock does what is in their best interests.

08-31-2012 , 04:30 PM

#200

catlax30

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 646

I think it's worse for the entire player pool, only better for Lock. They will be giving away less money overall I think so that's less money in play.

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