Interesting that they added 50/100 tables on UB now. Also I'm surprised that the kind of lead 2p2'er in this situation, trambopoline, has been playing basically all the high stakes games on UB. I'd like to hear his comments on why he is playing, seems like everyone else is boycotting UB, even if they are only playing like 400nl.

I dunno scansion, its a little bit like expecting an entry level worker at a large corporation to leave because they noticed some indiscrepancies on financial statements. Yeah most people arent going to agree with whats going on, but can you really ask them to quit their job?

Given the difficulty of moving money around to different sites these days its no surprise players whose primary source of income is poker are still frequenting the ub games. If its a choice between playing on a crooked site and making bank, or making no money at all.. i'll be playing that crooked game all day long. What that says about me, I dunno lol.

Hey guys,

This is a basic outline of a pm I sent to Barry Greenstein/ David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth.

I think the best thing (other then maybe someone here with better writing ability to redraft this) would be that we get some emails - such as that of pokerroad, cardplayer, bluff magazine etc and all mass email this to them.

>>>
Dear ____
(short reference to why I am contacting that particular person, how I believe they can help)

What i'd like to talk about- and what we, the online poker players ask of you is your help in re-establishing the integrity of online poker.

As i am sure you're well aware, there was a scandal on absolute poker where players were cheating by having the ability to see their opponents hole cards. Up until it was very obvious (and a mistake by absolute poker to release a file that contained all hands and made the evidence all but irrefutable) absolute poker denied any wrongdoing and refused to investigate. Whether it was an inside job or a breech of security- i dont know and to be honest i dont think that matters too much.

On ultimatebet (whose ownership is directly connected with that of absolute poker) there have been a large group of players winning at extreme amounts. They played with a style preflop and post that is unlike any other successful players. Some, in short handed games played over 60% of their hands, and raised over 40%. These players played against some the internets best players and they won. They killed them. In fact they did so well it is almost statistically impossible for them to win at the rate they did. Furthermore, nowhere else online have players with similar styles ever won at anywhere near the same rate they did on ultimate bet. To add more mystery to this, most of these players then deleted their accounts within weeks of the absolute poker scandal.

Let me restate that last bit. A group of players started playing on ub. They played a style that up until now was never successful at high limits. Depending on the details there were between 10-30 of these accounts and they won somewhere between $2-5 million dollars. And then they decided that they dont want to play on ultimate bet anymore and quit.

I'm asking you for help because I dont know what we can do to press the issue. Some members of the 2p2 community have been in contact with Phil Hellmuth, but he has not been able to get UB to release any official statement. Based on the things UB has been telling players who inquire about the potential cheating, it seems that ultimatebet is trying its best to hope all the allegations die down.

(Specific reasons again why/how this person could help us) We really need your help (or at least your guidance) in forcing ultimatebet's hand into at least releasing an official statement and undergo a formal investigation. I believe the integrity of online poker as a whole is at stake when any site conducts behavior like this.

Thanks


"

Everybody has a price. They found his obviously.

good stuff

whats even more sick is the new ub program on fox sports networks...its a whole hour of phill and annie watchen over some tourney given advice while ub ads are all over the place tryen to get players to sign up. this site cheated players out of hundreds of thousands of dollars yet they are still being advertised on espn and fox sport channels....even more reason why this industry needs to be banned or regulated....one or the other....this is messed up !

I've been pretty quiet because I don't really know what to do about it.

Also, I was somewhat disheartened by the lack of consequences for AP. Within a day or two, tons of high profile players were playing on AP because "it offered good value." I realized then that whatever I did wasn't really going effect any sort of long-term change. Sure some players might quit, but most are going to end up going back (like the guy a few posts up from this who says he'd choose making bank in a crooked game). There just isn't any point to pursuing things like this if there aren't any real and significant consequences for the site. Evidently, even though the players are the ones who will get screwed in the end, for the most part they are willing to take their chances on various smaller poker sites.

If that's the case, so be it and good luck to them. It isn't my money at risk of being stolen here.

QFT. I even got berated for telling UNL posters they shouldn't be playing there. Made me very sad, and I told them they were an insult to You, Adanthar, Josem et. al. they lolled, and said "but the games are soft" short-sighted idiots, imo.

wow i took some time off from poker after the whole AP thing and now i come back to this... jesus i mean yeah these guys were better about it then the AP superusers, but honestly how stupid do you have to be in order to fail in pulling this off? it is disgusting people would do this in the first place, but to be dumb enough to be so obvious in your stats and the obvious similarities in all the different sn's, wow... pretty sad in all respects... i am paranoid enough as it is, now i honestly i don't know if i'd ever play against a winning unknown..

1) lol poker media
2) lol AP/UB’s “investigation”
3) lol KGC
4) lol at the pathetic state of the entire online poker industry

.

Interesting thread and it definitely got me thinking.

Hellmuth said that most of the hands were HU or 3 handed and NioNio's VPIP was something like 65-75?
Is this really that irregular? If this was 6-max or FR then the VPIP and win rate alone give it away but this seems like a reasonable VPIP if it's 3 handed/HU.

He was playing something ******ed like 60/35 in 6 max too.

1) lol KGC
2) lol AP/UB’s “investigation”
3) lol poker media
4) lol Phil Helmuth
5) lol at the pathetic state of the entire online poker industry

cliffnotes?
oh and if any one can hook m e up with a super user pm me

bump

lol did you read the thread?

burp'

Anyways this is getting ridiculous. I sent Phil an email a few days ago asking for any updates and he replies 'no updates, hopefully this is all over soon!' Well thats a pretty awful reply. My only glint of hope is that according to my source, the KGC is now involved with this and apparently making a big fuss about it. So this makes me think its much more unlikely that UB will try and 'sweep this under the rug'. But it has been what, 6 weeks already and UB hasnt said **** aside from 'were investigating the matter'.

And about my recent play at UB... I really havent been playing all that much. The thing is UB has always been my main site for many years. It has been the only site which Ive always had a lot of money on. Whenever I would get money on stars or FTP, I would always seem to busto that. Literally, at FTP im like a 150k loser, Stars im breakeven or slightly winning, and UB im like 1mil+ winner. Now im not saying that makes it ok to play on UB in light of whats all been going on, but its really tough to make a living play online poker when you cant play on your most profitable site. The other thing you players have to look at is that there is a big difference between 1-2 and 50-100. Many of you 1-2 players dont seem to realize how different these games are. It is so rare for a really good 50-100$ game to run on any site these days, and lately UB has had some ridiculously soft high stakes games. That is pretty much the only time ive been playing, when I notice a particularly soft game. But believe me, I feel very guilty every time I log into UB and play there. It just feels wrong. And if they do conclude this investigation and say ' there was no evidence that cheating occured' then you can bet your ass that I wont be playing there anymore.

There's been a few requests for cliffnotes and list of suspected accounts beyond NioNio. Anyone want to take either of these on?

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=niosva5.jpg

Easychamp should be taken out as its been shown that he had nothing to do with this. Also we know that Nvtease was Nionio's original screen name and we have him at the same winrate for 1500 hands.

This is info that Nat gave us earlier in the thread...

-The nionio account was changed to nymobser.
-The nopaddles account was changed to sleeplesss.
-The changes were made on the same day.

So we know several of these accounts are directly related. Through other detailed records we have on the other players supports these claims even further. We have no records of any of these accounts ever playing at the same table. In fact there were sooo many instances where one of the screenames would play a quick session, book a big win then sign on to one of the other screenames in question, and do the same thing. Literally when you matched up the times that they started/ended sessions it really makes it look like all of these accounts belonged to 1 person. However we know for a fact that not all of the accounts were under the same name. So if I had to give a guess, Id def say that someone at UB was using these accounts and using accomplices to cash out so as not to be detected.

So in conclusion Flatbroke33, iLike2win, monizzzle, nionio, nopaddles, nymobser, nvtease, sleeplesss, stoned2nite, utakeit2, and whackme44. These are all of their detailed stats provided by http://www.mypokerintel.com. The date next to their name indicates the last date they played on Ultimatebet.

Flatbroke33 = 8/11, 65.5 bb/100 over 3753 hands- deleted or name changed

iLike2win = 6/22, 37.34 bb/100 over 5545 hands - deleted or name changed

Nionio = 9/4, 57.3 bb/100 over 8100 hands - name changed to nymobser

Nopaddles = 8/31, 89.6 bb/100 over 1508 hands - name changed to sleeplesss

Nymobser = 9/26, 46.7bb/100 over 899 hands - now deleted or name changed, HOWEVER name was still active until I outed it in this thread earlier, it was then
deleted or had its name changed within 24 hours of the post

Monizzle = 11/20, 38.51bb/100 over 2265 hands - deleted or name changed

Sleeplesss = 9/22, 98.87bb/100 over 1561 hands - now deleted or name changed, HOWEVER name was still active until I outed it in this thread earlier, it was then
deleted or had its name changed within 24 hours of the post

stoned2nite = 6/30, 129.2 bb/100 over 777 hands - deleted or name changed

Utakeit2 = 8/29, 45.41 bb/100 over 8046 hands - deleted or name changed

Whackme44 = 8/20, 47.73 bb/100 over 946 hands - deleted or name changed

There were also 3 really detailed spreadsheets of most of the players in question but I just looked though this thread for 20 minutes and cant seem to find it.

@ trambopoline (very well done)

Now that the evidence is clear it must be time for the police/Canadian-FBI to take over.

Has anyone contacted the Canadian autorities - I mean if you have knowledge of a serious crime you have an obligation to share your knowledge with the proper autorities otherwise you are seen as some sort of an accomplished.

Yes, isn't this a case for the police? Shouldn't the AP scandal have been? And why not? Wasn't that a deception?

every time i check back on this thread i get more depressed. the kgc has links to ap/ub so basicly they are investigating them selves so nothing at all is being done about this and nothing will. all we can do is not play at these site`s and strongly advize everyone we know that play`s on them not to.

i hope i`m wrong and phil hellmuth and other big names in the poker world will finally speak out about what they must know has been happening. but until the big names speak out nothing will happen and this will all just go away.

gl to all the players involved that have lost money in this scandal and ty to all that are trying to get something done about this but expecting the kgc to be to achieve anything is not the way to go imo. gl all

For those that missed it, this was earlier in the thread

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...46#post2184546
Post #162