What's the point? UB is almost unanimously regarded as sketchy already. Nobody wants money on their site. I doubt 2+2 is going to "win" this battle. It just isn't worth the energy to take them to task. Your time would be better spent grinding.

Bah, I always get forgotten I'M ON TEAM IKE/KRANTZ AS WELL AND CHIMED IN FIRST OF ALL TOGETHER WITH IKE!!

you're right, but it's more of a cautionary exercise/pause for further concern. we need to collect as many hh as possible, run it through an ev calculator, and determine whether or not he ran massively above expectation (meaning he is probably not a superuser and just a lucky fish).

The past has clearly shown that open investigation proved to be the most succesful. Having one thread about this should not be too much to ask.

that's not uncharted territory i'm afraid!

i think him having won 185k over 2300 hands of 25/50 and 50/100 (which would be one of the hottest 2300 hand stretch of the year for most) then going on to win at the same rate for the other 6k hands that trambo doesn't have recorded is, at the very least, pause for concern.

i don't necessarily think the thread should be deleted at this point, i just think gaucho and trambo are ******s for presenting something so serious to us, especially given the fact that they are both considered good high stakes players of some respect, in such a disorganized slipshod manner.

when i opened the thread my first thought was "you guys still play on UB?"

can someone trambop/ gaucho give the full pokertracker stats/ a pokerev graph?

I guess given that we know he's winning at 60bb/100 he's gonna have huge numbers any way you look at it, but is there any way we can analyze this with pokerev to see how probable his play is?

shouldn't there be a maximum won w/out showdown that is possible given the opponents he's playing? like if he's winning 50bb/100+ w/out showdown AND is winning $ at showdown something is probably going on.

i guess this may have limited value, but would still be cool to see

stealthcow-

also, presenting it as though its much more conclusive than it is in a public forum where people who aren't really qualified to evaluate can read it is irresponsible.

The quitting when the Absolute scandal broke seemed damning, but maybe he quit because he didn't want to play on UB anymore because of the scandal.

I'm just a railbird at these stakes but didn't he play occasionly a couple years ago? Around the time Prahlad and Hall played alot.

agree completely

"sashager raises to $175. NioNio re-raises to $600.
trambopoline folds. McLOVIN re-raises to $2025.
XXPSAXX folds. sashager folds. NioNio calls.

Flop (board: 2h 5h 3c):

McLOVIN goes all-in for $3498. NioNio goes all-in for
$1949. McLOVIN is returned $1549 (uncalled).

Turn (board: 2h 5h 3c Th):

(no action in this round)


River (board: 2h 5h 3c Th 4d):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

McLOVIN shows Ad Qc.
McLOVIN has Ad 2h 5h 3c 4d: straight, five high.
NioNio shows Jc 9c.
NioNio has Jc 9c 5h Th 4d: jack high."

hard to believe a guy who plays like this could win 30ptbb/100 over 8k hands at 68/60.

exactly....the point is the fact that he can make ridiculous plays like these, 4-betting j9o as a shortsish stack hu, and STILL be profitable is what boggles my mind.

fwf, krantz,

if this guy was sitting on UB right now would you play him?

hell yah

either way we gain something

and do you know how much fun it is to play a 68/60?

i agree--but to defend trambo a bit, he made this post very hastily late last night, we both had suspicions and then we finally went to our dbs, and then i realized i had lost 28k in 700 hands to him at 6max, and then trambo realized he had lost 58k to him in 2300 hands, and as you can imagine, trambo was a bit tilted to say the least. this is something that obviously wasn't planned out well, and i apologize on trambo's behalf for posting. but i stand by my suspicions and find it interesting that a player who is capapble of maknig such obvious boneheaded plays like calling with j9o on the low card flop could STILL manage to win that much over 8k hands, and also i found it surprising that he only had 1 losing session in 64 hours of play. hopefully others who actually played on ub during the time and have hands with him can come forward. thanks,
dlpnyc21

yup

when you say superuser - what do u actually mean by that???

1. He can see all the whole cards (like potripper)?
or
2. He knows whats coming on the community before its dealt out?

....it makes a huge difference between the two considering how alot of the varied plays made by nionio with the information you provided in the HH....

overall - its really hard to put him as a any of the two mentioned above

(but i get your point of him tryin to establish a certain table image...if in fact he is some sort of superuser)

lol, is that the thread where the guy starts out "whenever I raise, he reraises! whenever I reraise, he goes all in!" ? And then the thread just turned into a discussion about how sick Bld was

No, that was a different thread.

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...fpart=all&vc=1

The "Rampant Cheating at 10-20" thread

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...fpart=all&vc=1

Bld obviously had Party's superuser account. In addition to king_of_drafts's short critique, here are Bld's few suspicious accomplishments.

1. He constantly called down big big pots with A high and won.

2. He made 3bet shoves on the river having no fold equity while giving opponents a million to one odds; he obviously won because they folded.

3. He won for 30 straight days without a losing session.

4. He raped the games over 10bb/100 during a time frame and according to dataminers, averaged 8bb/100 for his 10/20NL career.

5. Why does every time I have something, he folds and when I don't, I always see a big ass raise? I mean, WTF?

6. Last and the most damning evidence. Except for a few HU battles on Stars to show that he is not a Party superuser, Bld disappeared after Party closed to US players. Why would he leave moneys on the tables like that?












































/sarcasm.

All,

"Turn (board: 5c 5s 8s Ad):
NioNio bets $1125. wolfdog2121 calls.

River (board: 5c 5s 8s Ad 5d):
NioNio bets $3375. wolfdog2121 calls.

Showdown:
NioNio shows 9d Ac.
NioNio has Ac 5c 5s Ad 5d: full house, fives full of aces.
wolfdog2121 mucks cards.
(wolfdog2121 has 6d 6s.)"

Wow, this guy gets a lot of action.

swear to god I get so f'n nostalgiac whenever I read a thread that was started in the heyday of party 10/20

I lost my large database. I have 160 hands on my laptop, he was +50k. I listed some HH’s and most of them the play is completely inconsistent with access to his villains hole cards. IMO he ran hot, but I didn’t play him too much because I saw him pillaging people every day. I wasn’t sure if he was ****** fish or genius European lag beyond my comprehension.
Choosing to show hand seems contrary to superuser: (sorry for the length)

Hand #44593996-4206 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 07/Aug/07 04:03:20

NioNio is at seat 0 with $32643.50.
arbianight is at seat 1 with $9740.95.
Stacysmom001 is at seat 2 with $1850.
trambopoline is at seat 3 with $10198.
woltas is at seat 5 with $8037.
The button is at seat 3.

woltas posts the small blind of $50.
NioNio posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
arbianight: -- --
Stacysmom001: 3d Ah
trambopoline: -- --
woltas: -- --

Pre-flop:

arbianight raises to $300. Stacysmom001 folds.
trambopoline folds. woltas folds. NioNio re-raises
to $500. arbianight calls.

Flop (board: 4s 4h Qd):

NioNio checks. arbianight checks.

Turn (board: 4s 4h Qd As):

NioNio checks. arbianight checks.

River (board: 4s 4h Qd As 8s):

NioNio bets $1050. arbianight folds. NioNio is
returned $1050 (uncalled).

NioNio opts to show Ac Ad.
NioNio has Ac Ad 4s 4h As: full house, aces full of fours.

CammorantCarl Spews…
Hand #44593996-2934 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 04/Aug/07 04:04:03

NioNio is at seat 0 with $24315.
lumbardo is at seat 1 with $5022 (sitting out).
CormorantCarl is at seat 4 with $10000.
The button is at seat 4.

CormorantCarl posts the small blind of $50.
NioNio posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
CormorantCarl: -- --

Pre-flop:

CormorantCarl raises to $300. NioNio re-raises to
$900. CormorantCarl goes all-in for $10000. NioNio
calls.

Flop (board: 3c 2h 9c):

(no action in this round)


Turn (board: 3c 2h 9c Jd):

(no action in this round)


River (board: 3c 2h 9c Jd 7d):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

CormorantCarl shows Tc Ah.
CormorantCarl has Tc Ah 9c Jd 7d: ace high.
NioNio shows Ad Kc.
NioNio has Ad Kc 9c Jd 7d: ace/king high.


Hand #44593996-2934 Summary:

$1 is raked from a pot of $20000.
NioNio wins $19999 with ace high.

He didn’t try for a value bet here:
Hand #44593996-2972 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 04/Aug/07 04:18:22

NioNio is at seat 0 with $38608.
_advanced is at seat 3 with $2562.30.
CormorantCarl is at seat 4 with $10000.
The button is at seat 4.

NioNio posts the small blind of $50.
_advanced posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
_advanced: -- --
CormorantCarl: -- --

Pre-flop:

CormorantCarl folds. NioNio raises to $300.
_advanced calls.

Flop (board: Kd Th 8s):

NioNio checks. _advanced checks.

Turn (board: Kd Th 8s 7c):

NioNio checks. _advanced checks.

River (board: Kd Th 8s 7c 2h):

NioNio checks. _advanced checks.



Showdown:

NioNio shows Qs As.
NioNio has Qs As Kd Th 8s: ace high.
_advanced shows 7d Ah.
_advanced has 7d Ah Kd Th 7c: a pair of sevens.


Hand #44593996-2972 Summary:

$1 is raked from a pot of $600.
_advanced wins $599 with a pair of sevens.

Shoves Over + FD in RR pot.
Hand #44593996-4208 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 07/Aug/07 04:04:16

NioNio is at seat 0 with $32841.50.
arbianight is at seat 1 with $9140.95.
Stacysmom001 is at seat 2 with $1850.
trambopoline is at seat 3 with $10198.
woltas is at seat 5 with $8435.
The button is at seat 0.

arbianight posts the small blind of $50.
Stacysmom001 posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
arbianight: -- --
Stacysmom001: 8c 5s
trambopoline: -- --
woltas: -- --

Pre-flop:

trambopoline folds. woltas raises to $200. NioNio
calls. arbianight re-raises to $900. Stacysmom001
folds. woltas folds. NioNio calls.

Flop (board: Qc Tc 4d):

arbianight bets $1700. NioNio raises to $7200.
arbianight goes all-in for $8240.95. NioNio calls.


Turn (board: Qc Tc 4d As):

(no action in this round)


River (board: Qc Tc 4d As 3h):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

arbianight shows Th Jh.
arbianight has Th Jh Qc Tc As: a pair of tens.
NioNio shows Ac 5c.
NioNio has Ac 5c Qc Tc As: a pair of aces.

Checks Down worse A high.
Hand #44593996-4207 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 07/Aug/07 04:03:54

NioNio is at seat 0 with $33191.50.
arbianight is at seat 1 with $9240.95.
Stacysmom001 is at seat 2 with $1850.
trambopoline is at seat 3 with $10198.
woltas is at seat 5 with $7987.
The button is at seat 5.

NioNio posts the small blind of $50.
arbianight posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
arbianight: -- --
Stacysmom001: 3s 9c
trambopoline: -- --
woltas: -- --

Pre-flop:

Stacysmom001 folds. trambopoline folds. woltas
raises to $350. NioNio calls. arbianight folds.

Flop (board: 8s 6c 2s):

NioNio checks. woltas checks.

Turn (board: 8s 6c 2s 2h):

NioNio checks. woltas checks.

River (board: 8s 6c 2s 2h Jd):

NioNio checks. woltas checks.



Showdown:

NioNio shows 3c Ac.
NioNio has Ac 8s 2s 2h Jd: a pair of deuces.
woltas shows Ad Qs.
woltas has Ad Qs 2s 2h Jd: a pair of deuces, ace/queen kickers.


Hand #44593996-4207 Summary:

$2 is raked from a pot of $800.
woltas wins $798 with a pair of deuces.

NIONIO SPEW TARDS

Hand #44594320-10556 at Mississauga (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 31/Jul/07 04:24:44

XXPSAXX is at seat 0 with $5143.
sashager is at seat 1 with $11014.
PIMH is at seat 2 with $5000 (sitting out).
NioNio is at seat 3 with $3974.
trambopoline is at seat 4 with $9718.
McLOVIN is at seat 5 with $5523.
The button is at seat 4.

McLOVIN posts the small blind of $25.
XXPSAXX posts the big blind of $50.

XXPSAXX: -- --
sashager: -- --
NioNio: -- --
trambopoline: -- --
McLOVIN: -- --

Pre-flop:

sashager raises to $175. NioNio re-raises to $600.
trambopoline folds. McLOVIN re-raises to $2025.
XXPSAXX folds. sashager folds. NioNio calls.

Flop (board: 2h 5h 3c):

McLOVIN goes all-in for $3498. NioNio goes all-in for
$1949. McLOVIN is returned $1549 (uncalled).

Turn (board: 2h 5h 3c Th):

(no action in this round)


River (board: 2h 5h 3c Th 4d):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

McLOVIN shows Ad Qc.
McLOVIN has Ad 2h 5h 3c 4d: straight, five high.
NioNio shows Jc 9c.
NioNio has Jc 9c 5h Th 4d: jack high.


Hand #44594320-10556 Summary:

$2 is raked from a pot of $8173.
McLOVIN wins $8171 with straight, five high.
----------------------------------------------------------------
NIONIO MASHES POT INTO AA
Hand #44594320-10519 at Mississauga (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 31/Jul/07 04:02:42

XXPSAXX is at seat 0 with $5023.
sashager is at seat 1 with $6645.
NioNio is at seat 3 with $9011.
trambopoline is at seat 4 with $11294.
Stacysmom001 is at seat 5 with $925.
The button is at seat 0.

sashager posts the small blind of $25.
NioNio posts the big blind of $50.

XXPSAXX: -- --
sashager: -- --
NioNio: -- --
trambopoline: -- --
Stacysmom001: Ah Ac

Pre-flop:

trambopoline folds. Stacysmom001 raises to $100.
XXPSAXX folds. sashager folds. NioNio re-raises to
$325. Stacysmom001 goes all-in for $925. NioNio
calls.

Flop (board: As 2s Th):

(no action in this round)


Turn (board: As 2s Th 3d):

(no action in this round)


River (board: As 2s Th 3d 2c):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

Stacysmom001 shows Ah Ac.
Stacysmom001 has Ah Ac As 2s 2c: full house, aces full of deuces.
NioNio mucks cards.
(NioNio has 5s Jc.)


Hand #44594320-10519 Summary:

$2 is raked from a pot of $1875.
Stacysmom001 wins $1873 with full house, aces full of deuces.
----------------------------------------------------------------
LOOKS A BIT SUSPICOUS, BUT IN LIGHT OF J9 CALL AI, I THINK ITS EASILY EXPLAINED.
Hand #44593996-2988 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 04/Aug/07 04:24:40

NioNio is at seat 0 with $22397.70.
_advanced is at seat 3 with $11864.60 (sitting out).
CormorantCarl is at seat 4 with $19149.
The button is at seat 0.

NioNio posts the small blind of $50.
CormorantCarl posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
CormorantCarl: -- --

Pre-flop:

NioNio raises to $300. CormorantCarl re-raises to
$900. NioNio re-raises to $1500. CormorantCarl
re-raises to $6400. NioNio calls.

Flop (board: 8c Jd Ts):

CormorantCarl goes all-in for $12749. NioNio calls.


Turn (board: 8c Jd Ts 6c):

(no action in this round)


River (board: 8c Jd Ts 6c 3h):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

CormorantCarl shows Ks Ah.
CormorantCarl has Ks Ah 8c Jd Ts: ace high.
NioNio shows 7c 7h.
NioNio has 7c 7h 8c Jd Ts: a pair of sevens.


Hand #44593996-2988 Summary:

$1 is raked from a pot of $38298.
NioNio wins $38297 with a pair of sevens.

NIONIO IS CHECKING TO INDUCE, HAD HE SEEN TRAMBO’S TPGK HE WOULD PROBABLY JUST BE BETTING.
Hand #44593996-4201 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 07/Aug/07 04:00:23

NioNio is at seat 0 with $22545.50.
arbianight is at seat 1 with $9175.
trambopoline is at seat 3 with $9550.
woltas is at seat 5 with $8189.
The button is at seat 3.

woltas posts the small blind of $50.
NioNio posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
arbianight: -- --
trambopoline: -- --
woltas: -- --

Pre-flop:

arbianight raises to $300. trambopoline re-raises to
$1050. woltas folds. NioNio calls. arbianight
folds.

Flop (board: 3d 7s 8s):

NioNio checks. trambopoline bets $1800. NioNio
calls.

Turn (board: 3d 7s 8s Kd):

NioNio checks. trambopoline goes all-in for $6700.
NioNio calls.

River (board: 3d 7s 8s Kd Ks):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

trambopoline shows Kh Qd.
trambopoline has Kh Qd 8s Kd Ks: three kings.
NioNio shows 8d 8c.
NioNio has 8d 8c 8s Kd Ks: full house, eights full of kings.


Hand #44593996-4201 Summary:

$2 is raked from a pot of $19450.
NioNio wins $19448 with full house, eights full of kings.