Forgot to mention that although I think the above would be cool and all, it's not expected - just would be a cool thing to do.

It does when the friend was set to rail the entire tournament before OP generously lent him the buyin. That's the part that sticks out for me beyond anything else and I can't get away from it. Unless they had a history of continuously loaning money back and forth, this was a special circumstance. If I were in the friend's shoes, and I've been there many times in my life thus far,* I would be more than generous with paying back the favour. *Outside of poker*

It's like me giving you 10,000$ to roll dice with, after you've asked 4 times, you running it to 600,000$ in 2 hours and then giving me just the 10,000$ back. Sure it looks fine in theory but what a f**ing degenerative douchebag move it would be in practice. Paying for a sushi meal would be even worse. None of you watching this could disagree here.

convinced you're just trolling now. That or you don't understand the difference between a stake and a loan.

We know it's a loan, that's obvious. Refer back to OP's initial post in this topic. The loan was made at the very last minute to put OP's friend in action. He made it happen, not the friend or a 'banker' or some other backer, the OP gave the loan at the very last minute. Now read the other posts and make an argument or GTFO.

If you start with insults again, pm me for my address in Tokyo and we can duel it out at my favorite poker spot when you're in town.

I think a lot of people are getting messed up because of the numbers....

In the real world, say OP and his friend are in a convenience store and his friend says '*** I really wanted to play the lottery today man, I had a dream last night about the winning numbers' but he left his wallet at work or something. OP gives his friend $10 or w/e the lottery costs to play and his friend luckboxes his way to $100mil or $1mil or $100k. I think any friend would say 'here man take a thousand' or something like that, which would be a significantly large % of the original $10 buy in... Ask any of your parents if this situation were to happen to them if they would expect something back?

And lets face it, winning a tourny is just like winning the lottery amirite?

But because we're poker players and large sums of money pass back and forth between us like it's nothing, we don't see that. In the real world, it's just not the same.

if it cost 5 utils to get in and your friend payed for you because you didn't have access to your utils, and you won say 300 utils, would you be willing to give up lets say 5 utils to at least bring your friend back to even utils? (on top of the utils that you need to repay for the loan). Would you be willing to part with 5 extra utils out of 300 as a good will gesture for your friend?

I realize that % freeroll was agreed upon and this stuff doesn't happen in the poker world and blah blah, and I'm not saying that I would either, it's business and that's how business goes, but a lot of the times I find myself looking at these situations from a poker and EV perspective while having lost touch with reality and what 'normal' people do. Obv it would also help (although it shouldn't in the real world) if you knew that if the situations were reversed you would give your friend money.


Night out + dinner + tits is standard and I'm pretty sure that's just to be expected when any friend wins a donkament... That's neutral EV though as my friends expect it of me too... As long as the people you hang out with are equal in skill to you and play the same general types of tournies -- and there I go thinking like a poker player...


I'm sure FWF will come in and settle this argument.

Jesus, how did this thread get so long?

The answer is simple. Your friend definitely owes you nothing. It was a $5k loan, NOT a stake.

If I was in this situation I would def throw in a card for them at CCR and pay for them when we go out to celebrate. But to expect a $5k+ present?? WTF?!

Lol... was just about to make a "this is still going?!?!" post.

Your friend probably should give you a little something-something but he's absolutely, 100% not entitled to, nor should you expect it.

/thread

the guy that won the 300,000k is a cheap,miserable bastard, he should have given the lender 5-10k for the loan, karma is a biatch though

morons itt

lol

not nearly as cheap and miserable as making a post asking what the friend should do though right?

Sorry, I'm definitely not a high stakes player, but I'm also not a **** idiot like some people ITT, so I feel qualified to post.

All the people who are talking about interest: if you charge your friend interest on a relatively small loan that he's 100% definitely going to pay back within a week, you deserve a kitn. Don't be such a **** nit.

@ the poster who talked about this being a high risk loan: there is ZERO risk involved in this loan. OP will get paid back regardless of how his friend performs in the tournament. The only 'risk' is that OP's friend will douche out, but that's a different matter entirely.

@ OP: your friend owes you nothing beyond the 5k. Should he give you something (dinner/drinks/strippers)? Probably. But he definitely doesn't owe you anything.

Now as I see it there are 3 points of view:

- Some that see me as a scumbag for expecting money in return. I didn't expect anything when I lend him the 5k, didn't even think about him cashing or whatever, I just did it out of good will. When he did win, I did expect something as a thankful gesture, but not because he owed me anything, I mean I would do the same, it's only natural to expect the same kind of treatment for you than what you give, and I don't feel like a scumbag for thinking like this. However that is entirely up to him and I can't force anything. For what is worth I didnt even expect a big monetary sum, i just threw in 5k because thats the buy in ammount. I wouldn't have mind a simple present either, just something to show appreciation, after all it was my bday. But after getting absolutely nothing I did feel kinda bad, i thought maybe he didn't even liked me (i know thats not true now, but i was confused).

- Other people see the question and my doubts as they are and just reply with their thoughts, however I did expect to get random idiots and flames, its only natural in an open forum.

- Then theres the guys that think that I should definetly get something, but im also wrong for expecting something, so they think me and my friend are both cheap. I think this is wrong also, because my friend is/was pretty generous, in general we were both pretty generous with each other, that's one reason I also kinda expected something from him, even if this was wrong (im still not sure if it's wrong or just natural).

Another thing is that I didn't do a ****ing bussiness with him by lending the 5k, so refering this to a bussiness is stupid. In a bussiness you risk something to gain something, I didn't have anything to gain from him (except to further our friendship of course) and only eveything to lose when I lend the 5k, I even got short of money to spend for the whole trip, its not like i brought 30k with me.

In any case I think this is more like a cultural thing, where I am from this is only natural, so all the people that asked me "how much did your friend give you"? were pretty surprised and did thought he was cheap when i replied "nothing".

But who knows, im young so maybe im wrong. What im sure of is that im pretty far from being cheap or greedy. Thats like the opposite of me.

why are you guys humoring this guy. it's pretty obvious he's wrong or else there would be an incredible arbitrage business in the mtt community.

First of all, this is business, what you got in return is goodwill and the sense that if you are put in this situation some time in the future, he would do the same for you, if you guys are decent poker friends and do some travelling together, this is very important. If you were willing to lend him money, then you probably felt that you did not have that much to lose, after all, if you felt like there was a slightest chance he could have reneged then you most likely wouldn't have lent him the money.

Second, I think it's much less to do with where you're from and much more to do with who you talked to, as I outlined before, people in the 'real world' don't see money transactions like poker players. As a poker player I would say 'Hey man, lets go to dinner and drinks on me' which I would do anyway with my closest friends if I shipped 300k. But that's it, because I know that sometime in the future, we'll be at tourny xyz and you'll need some money and i'll give it to you without thinking. That's the nature of our business that others don't see.

Next time you're with non poker friends at a casino, go ask one of them 'hey dude, I just lost all the money i brought here but the game is really juicy, gimmie 10k' and then try that with the guy you lent 5k to... you'll get vastly different looks and responses.

You are... an idiot.

The answer here is so simple and some ppl get it and some don't. OP's friend owes absolutely nothing and has to make his own decison (based on his own value system, and what have you, as to what to do). If it were me, I would probably take my friend to a nice dinner, maybe pay for a round of golf at Pebble beach. But it's completely a personal thing, and for someone with a 200k+ bankroll to come on to an internet forum and whine about the situation is childish and immature.

People who are saying that OP's friend exhibited despicable behavior by not chucking him some cash are, as mikech said, utterly delusional. Firstly there are far more important things in life than money, and to expect that one act of genorosity (albeit one that involved money) should be directly compensated by a financial donation is to suggest that money is the be-all-and-end-all of human interaction. In a good friendship, the lender would never feel obligated to write this post on 2+2 because he would know that he had helped his friend and done a good deed. And he would hopefully feel secure that his friend would help him in a similar situation in the future. To suggest that there is an objective financial contribution that one should make in a situation like this is to objectify what is an entirely personal matter that we have no business making inferences into.

May as well cut a check to his parents because if he wasn't born this couldn't have happened. Oh and cut a check to the taxi driver that drove you there...

Is this guy serious?

OP, depending on how well you regard this friendship, you might want to consider seeing a lawyer over this. The countless posts in this thread are from poker players that give/accept loans frequently and the status quo appears to be having these loans made/taken with zero expectation. It makes sense if you're in constant need of transfers, if they started talking profit sharing or percentages, it would hurt their bottom line in the long run.

Honestly OP, if the guy is a really good friend, just let it pass. Friendship is far more valuable and important. Now if he's just some dude and the money means something to you, see a lawyer because I'm fairly certain that 50% could be won through litigation. A jury could hear all the arguments in the world about loans vs staking, but the bottom line is that he won 300k$ with your 5k$. It's fairly black and white from a layman's perspective. Lottery winners are sued and lose all the time when winning tickets are derived from multiple sources. This is even more glaringly obvious in a courtroom as 100% of his winnings were derived from your initial capital. At minimum a 30-40% settlement could be made after the initial 300k is frozen, it seems plausible. As everyone in this thread said, it's just cash and business, so don't let your emotions move into play. See a lawyer.

What is wrong with you?

Are you serious? of course you share a big portion of your winnings with your parents over the course of your life.

Of course you tip/pay for the taxi. In any case you can take any other cab in the world, or you can walk.

Of course you tip the dealer that gave you the winning hand or was dealing your good run even if he/she of course had no way of making that possible.

I wouldn't see a lawyer because I don't think I deserve anything from his well earned money other than appreciation for making it possible somehow (of course I wasn't the only factor, and was a small one, but still a factor).

I just don't see things as bussiness either way.

What are you all teary eyed about sweetheart? Everyone in this thread said the transaction was just business and should be treated as such. Suing the "friend" would simply be a business decision taken to the extremes. OP's friend is greedy, his actions should be met with the same.

how good of a friend can he really be if he doesnt give u any piece of the cake after taking it down? for me it feels pretty much like a given to at least give u some % of the money won in that tourney think 10% at least is pretty reasonable but i never play mtts either so i realize thats prolly hugely optimistic, even so think he could at least doubled what u loaned him for u.

also think its pretty lol of the people saying u shouldnt pursue this if u value his friendship... he shouldnt have put u in this position if he valued UR friendship

Similian,

Please go back to making threads about folding AA2x preflop in O8.

Thanks

He doesn't owe you anything. It shouldn't even bother you at all, especially not enough to post it on 2p2. He gave you back what he borrowed. It would have been nice of him to give you some more as thanks, but that's his decision. I'm sure that he'll be more than willing to help you out in the future when you're in need of money.

WUT???? serious? I feel sorry for ppl who consider you as their friends.