River value bluff turned into bluff catcher 5/10 2.1k Deep - High Stakes Poker Pot Limit and No Limit

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River value bluff turned into bluff catcher 5/10 2.1k Deep

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08-09-2008 , 08:09 PM

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Poker Stars $5/$10 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN/SB: $2116.50
Hero (BB): $4092.50

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with A

BTN/SB raises to $30, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($60.00) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $50, Hero raises to $170, BTN/SB calls $120

Turn: ($400.00) 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $325, BTN/SB calls $325

River: ($1050.00) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $775, BTN/SB raises to $1591.50 all in, Hero ???

Villain is a standard TAG but pretty ABC haven't seen anything too crazy outa him but he has jammed the river a few times now.
My image is a bit LAGGY but a competent player, im up a few buyins and have the momentum. Villain could very well be a bit tilted.

Last edited by Huggy; 08-09-2008 at 08:24 PM.

08-09-2008 , 08:36 PM

FionnMac

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,494

follllllld

08-09-2008 , 08:47 PM

popoko42

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,057

well you only have to be good like 20% here. normally this is snap fold but i'd make crying call cause villain is tilted and cause he has jammed a couple times. i just really wanna call cause of pot odds and recent history. maybe i'm wrong though

08-09-2008 , 09:00 PM

Lavitz

grinder

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 595

Your line looks extremely strong and he should know he is offering you great pot odds. Also, ABC TAGs aren't pulling this line with a 78 typeish hand enough to be profitable.

I think he has a 68cc or A7 type hand here a lot.

08-09-2008 , 09:10 PM

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavitz

He cant shove A7 for value.

08-09-2008 , 09:32 PM

popoko42

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,057

one more thing is that your line is so aggressive that it might tilt an already tilted opponent who likes to shove into bluffshoving (probably not likely, but it only needs to be true like 19% of the time!)

08-09-2008 , 10:38 PM

slik

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,571

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

He cant shove A7 for value.

Why not? I would.

08-10-2008 , 12:01 AM

JawOT

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 118

Results?

08-10-2008 , 12:23 AM

PartyGirlUK

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23,530

Let's be clear about one thing, there is zero 'bluff' in your value bluff.

08-10-2008 , 12:26 AM

#10

popoko42

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,057

what worse hand were you hoping to call when you bet river?

08-10-2008 , 02:46 AM

#11

onlinebeginner

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,892

isn't check raising this flop pretty silly?

08-10-2008 , 02:55 AM

#12

popoko42

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,057

i don't think so with 12 outs to the nuts and some FE with a large c/r. we can get villain off of 5x and 6x, which currently beat us. my main issue is river--i don't see what worse hands are calling or what better hands are folding when we bet

08-10-2008 , 03:11 AM

#13

cero_z

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by PartyGirlUK

Let's be clear about one thing, there is zero 'bluff' in your value bluff.

Can't put it any better than this. Now you fold, especially vs. the player described.

08-10-2008 , 05:37 AM

#14

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by cero_z

Can't put it any better than this. Now you fold, especially vs. the player described.

You don't think I can make 2 pair fold to a triple barrel x% of the time?

08-10-2008 , 05:41 AM

#15

Digs

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,267

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

You don't think I can make 2 pair fold to a triple barrel x% of the time?

yea where 0<x<1

08-10-2008 , 05:48 AM

#16

Huggy

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digs

yea where 0<x<1

2 pair is only a bluff catcher.

08-10-2008 , 10:53 AM

#17

Lavitz

grinder

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 595

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huggy

You don't think I can make 2 pair fold to a triple barrel x% of the time?

Youre not going to be making two pairs fold much on this board at all. The flush draw bricked and so did every pair/straight draw type hand which pretty much make up a huge part of your range.

Also, why on earth do you think he can't be shoving A7 for value? I think it's a bit standard to c/shove river if he got there like this with A7.

08-10-2008 , 01:12 PM

#18

isipil

adept

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,178

Quote:

Originally Posted by popoko42

am I missing 4 outs somewhere?

08-10-2008 , 02:39 PM

#19

PartyGirlUK

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23,530

He won't be folding 2 pr firstly because people don't fold 2 pairs when there aren't 4 straights or 4 flushes and secondly because if he has 2 pair on the turn he's gonna be shipping it in rather than calling, so the only 2 pair he can have is A7 and gl trying to get him off that.

08-10-2008 , 02:56 PM

#20

onlinebeginner

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,892

I'd bet/call the flop... then try to check raise the turn

08-10-2008 , 03:12 PM

#21

bagclip2007

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,671

Quote:

Originally Posted by isipil

am I missing 4 outs somewhere?

gut shot...

08-10-2008 , 03:13 PM

#22

popoko42

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,057

Quote:

am I missing 4 outs somewhere?

9 NFD outs + 3 gutshot outs (yes i know that its not exactly the nut str8 if an 8 comes but its basically the nuts)

08-12-2008 , 06:03 PM

#23

Huggy

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Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,922

Isnt villains range here pretty weak in that str8s will try and rasie the flop or turn, so that stacks can get in by the river. Also some % of the time I think villain will 3 bet 2pair and sets on the flop or turn.

Where as my range is very polarised in that I either has a missed draw a straight/set/ 2 pair a % of the time.

08-12-2008 , 06:30 PM

#24

krmont22

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,078

its so easy for you to have a flush or a straight...he is not bluffing.

08-13-2008 , 04:40 AM

#25

Shizzle12345

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,574

after i bet this river, my mouse is hovering around the fold button. he can 100% shove A7 here. and i like a river c/c too. sometimes c/f if you have a read o n his betsizing or have a v bet feeling when he pots it or whatever. but a bet here is fine too.

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