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How do you get over massive losses ? How do you get over massive losses ?

05-19-2012 , 10:15 PM
I took a really huge loss this year. Not in poker, but investing/trading. I lost something like 12% of my net worth betting against netflix on their Q1 earnings. I had a terrific year in 2011 and basically gave back 35% of my total profits.

The feeling of nausea I felt when I closed that trade is really hard to describe. I guess the closest feeling I can describe is getting punched in the balls really hard. I wanted to cry but I couldn't. This was definitely the single biggest 'never going to be recovered all gone' loss I've ever had.

In that moment of pain I had a flash of insight--I do not want to feel like that when I'm 40. I'm 27 now, so the way I see it I need to figure out how to find a line of work that won't leave me feeling that way within 13 years. It's just too painful. For those of us who really don't have that much natural gamble losses are really hard to stomach.

If you lost 500k playing nosebleeds massively underrolled you have have way more gamble than me. That being said it's probably not a good thing to be that loose risk management wise--and you'll probably go busto repeatedly in your life. That said you'll probably hold way more money than I will on several occasions as well. If that's something you're ok with then cool. If not then the only way you're ever going to get over this loss long term is to either change yourself and be able to be sure that it won't happen again, or to simply accept that this is the life you want for yourself and enjoy the ride.

Cliffs: Either accept who you are now, or try to change. These are the only two options that are going to lead to you being able to cope with this and the inevitable future losses.
05-20-2012 , 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulgibbo
Was drawn here by Alex Torelli's fine blog. This was a long time ago - I wonder what has become of you?

I can say as a professional psychologist and philosopher - and a poker player - and once a Wall Street trader...

Self-forgiveness is the hardest thing to come by. Self destructive impulses (see if you can guess) cost me a career where $1m per year was easy to come by (Wall Street). This was in the 80s. Few Poker players come close to this sort of income on a regular basis. By 23, I had 'made it', by 27 I was washed up. Depression set in. It took years to recover.

Poker or no Poker this matters for the rest of your life. Until you are 'complete' with this - and by that I mean the Buddhist 'so it is' (without emotion, regret, remorse, self-pity).... it just is...

You don't want to go through life thinking 'i could been a contender' - the fact is this outcome was inevitable - it was just a question of when...

As i say to people 'there may be a 'you' in a parallel Universe with your talents AND sound bankroll management - but it isn't you - and you did the best you could with what you know'... To think 'i knew better' is BS - you did the best the real you (not a fantasy you) could do.

And, without self-forgiveness, if you start down the road again, you may well end up here again.

There is a mindset I think I've learned, and that I try to inculcate in my young son. People **** up. You will **** up - fail, let people down, miss opportunities, **** up the ones you get. In relationships, in career, in hobbies, in finance - you WILL spew.

Failure is inevitable. Suffering is inevitable. Given those facts of life, now what do we do?
(that is straight Buddhism - read 'when things fall apart by Pema Chodron')
great book - many answers in there...

Paul
05-21-2012 , 09:53 AM
completely understand. Did you feel you made an error in the netflix trade? I find that i can more or less handle when i play well the money goes in good, and i lose. i find it much harder to accept when i've tooled off chips.

And the same when i used to trade.

your visceral aversion to 'gambol gambol' probably makes you a good trader, and a sound poker player...
05-22-2012 , 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulgibbo
completely understand. Did you feel you made an error in the netflix trade? I find that i can more or less handle when i play well the money goes in good, and i lose. i find it much harder to accept when i've tooled off chips.

And the same when i used to trade.

your visceral aversion to 'gambol gambol' probably makes you a good trader, and a sound poker player...
Yeah I really don't want to relive my netflix trade-- but I do think that I made a serious mistake in terms of how much I bet vs my edge. As a rule I try not to push that much size unless I have a very very good reason.

I think that some of my logic on the netflix trade was faulty. Basically I was biased towards betting against netflix because I thought (and still do) that it's a garbage stock worth 10$ and I'd already made a lot of money betting against it in 2011. None of that equated to a great catalyst worthy of putting that much on the line with that much obvious volatility.
05-22-2012 , 03:28 AM
I've lost 200k playing the market and probably 80k on UB

I got over the 80k by quitting poker and playing the market
I got over the 200k by quitting the market and playing poker

Hope that helps!
05-24-2012 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxophone
Hello,

I used to play pretty high stakes and lost my whole roll trying at shot at the nosebleed (~$500 000) ; its been more than a year now, i haven't played poker much but i still find myself not able to "mourn" the money I have lost. It's like it's still mine and i want it back. I cant manage to accept that its gone forever. I know it but there is still this idea inside me i can get it back by playing poker.

The truth is after losing that money i felt exactly like Matt Damon in Rounders. I had to stop or i would lose everything else, perhaps even myself. Except, i didnt lose 30K i've lost 500k, and as a student its a great difference. Above all for a philosophy student because that wasnt money earned to buy common goods, but money to buy my freedom. Money to be free to do what i want whenever i want.

Nowadays, i feel like im struggling mentally and financially. I wanna get back to poker to make a little money but i still have high expectations of myself having been a NL2K and 5K regular. I cannot manage to play those stakes but i find myself trying to get back over there. I dont want to. I dont want to live this very intense life anymore. But its still in my mind. I havent accept the fact that i have to move on with my life, move on with the idea of playing 5K NL again, move on maybe with the idea of playing poker again.

I feel ashamed also, don't know if you know the video of Steve jobs giving a speech at Stanford uni but i feel like he had been when he was fired from his own company. I'm disappointed in myself and i feel I have disappointed some of my poker friends.

I'm feeling guilty too. Guilty for having lost that much money in a very short time. Because it's my own fault, i could have move down in stakes after losing a few hundred k but i didn't.

There is a lot of bad feelings inside me, shame, guilt, i don't know how to get rid of them. Well, i sort of know, i have to move on, get over it, rebuild myself and create a new identity which wont be poker dependent.

Anyway, maybe some of few i've been where i am right now and if you have some advise for me, please do. Maybe you've been through an identity crisis too, because i think that's what it really is, i need your help to get back on my feet mentally.
I'm sorry to hear about your loss.. I suppose the way I would think to get over such a loss is that past is the past. Money in the past is not a requirement for happiness today.

One thing you should do for sure is to stay away from stakes which you can't afford to lose. Perhaps the only way you could allow yourself back to higher stakes is by starting with a minimal bankroll of say 100$ and then grind yourself upwards. If you can't do that, it probably wouldn't be worth trying with a larger bankroll anyway. If you think there's a chance that you could not control yourself from risking a lot of your money, it might be a good idea to not play poker..

I hope that you feel better about it over time whether you win any money back or not
05-25-2012 , 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faen
I'm sorry to hear about your loss.. I suppose the way I would think to get over such a loss is that past is the past. Money in the past is not a requirement for happiness today.

One thing you should do for sure is to stay away from stakes which you can't afford to lose. Perhaps the only way you could allow yourself back to higher stakes is by starting with a minimal bankroll of say 100$ and then grind yourself upwards. If you can't do that, it probably wouldn't be worth trying with a larger bankroll anyway. If you think there's a chance that you could not control yourself from risking a lot of your money, it might be a good idea to not play poker..

I hope that you feel better about it over time whether you win any money back or not
This advice is either generic and meh or (if OP was a 5knl reg who just tilted) ridiculous and terrible.

OP needs to examine his personal relationship with risk and gambling and decide how he wants to live his life.
05-25-2012 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredSocial
This advice is either generic and meh or (if OP was a 5knl reg who just tilted) ridiculous and terrible.

OP needs to examine his personal relationship with risk and gambling and decide how he wants to live his life.
Whats up Matt

QFT. Unfortunately OP, it will actually be counterproductive to talk about your situation/life mess with anyone who isn't a poker player, was, in the community, or has lost a similar life changing amount of $ doing something similar( unless your parents are nice or something). Alot of dumb/nice people will try to be nice because this is what they do( and they try). However, for the most part the average person can't understand how you made/lost the money in the first place, are either secretly and/or subconsciously jealous of that fact you did it playing a game, or they may completely invalidate you( you get this when you talk to the dumb ones and especially the relatives) and your game by saying "maybe it just wasn't meant to be, its a rough lifestyle."

Stay away from the philosophical BS and talk to as many poker players as you can, people that have been through very similar experiences( and make sure theyre ok now, so theyre no cynical and bitter lol) HS players, and just simply people who you know are much smarter than you( they qualify based on that alone). Gl

Josh
05-25-2012 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredSocial
This advice is either generic and meh or (if OP was a 5knl reg who just tilted) ridiculous and terrible.

OP needs to examine his personal relationship with risk and gambling and decide how he wants to live his life.
Really? Cause I still believe that my advice is far better than yours.. Your "great" advice is redundant. If somebody asks, hey what is 5+5? Then you'll be like, "I'm a ****in genious dude, 5+5=5+5!! Where's my science award huh?"

It is good advice to not risk more than you can afford to lose. Since you disagree, why don't you bet all your belongings on the local casino? On the bright side you can still play poker (and win for once) with garbadge with the new friends you'll make under a random bridge..

I can understand that the advice of earning a lot of money starting from 100$ is rediculous and terrible advice in your case. However for good poker players it would be a profitable idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh87
Whats up Matt

QFT. Unfortunately OP, it will actually be counterproductive to talk about your situation/life mess with anyone who isn't a poker player, was, in the community, or has lost a similar life changing amount of $ doing something similar( unless your parents are nice or something). Alot of dumb/nice people will try to be nice because this is what they do( and they try). However, for the most part the average person can't understand how you made/lost the money in the first place, are either secretly and/or subconsciously jealous of that fact you did it playing a game, or they may completely invalidate you( you get this when you talk to the dumb ones and especially the relatives) and your game by saying "maybe it just wasn't meant to be, its a rough lifestyle."

Stay away from the philosophical BS and talk to as many poker players as you can, people that have been through very similar experiences( and make sure theyre ok now, so theyre no cynical and bitter lol) HS players, and just simply people who you know are much smarter than you( they qualify based on that alone). Gl

Josh
Searching for intelligent remarks....

Results: 0 intelligent remarks found..

Conclusion: gtfo.
05-25-2012 , 09:48 PM
You told a guy who lost 500k to start with a 100$ bankroll. If you can't understand why this would never work, then you probably don't even play poker.
05-25-2012 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faen
Really? Cause I still believe that my advice is far better than yours.. Your "great" advice is redundant. If somebody asks, hey what is 5+5? Then you'll be like, "I'm a ****in genious dude, 5+5=5+5!! Where's my science award huh?"

It is good advice to not risk more than you can afford to lose. Since you disagree, why don't you bet all your belongings on the local casino? On the bright side you can still play poker (and win for once) with garbadge with the new friends you'll make under a random bridge..

I can understand that the advice of earning a lot of money starting from 100$ is rediculous and terrible advice in your case. However for good poker players it would be a profitable idea.



Searching for intelligent remarks....

Results: 0 intelligent remarks found..

Conclusion: gtfo.
I think it's kind of sketchy for ME (because I don't play poker anymore... and I never played HS anything) to be posting in HSNL. You should return to whatever forum hole you came from.

For a guy to have a 500k bankroll he must either have a) inherited a large sum b) earned 500k doing something or c) earned 500k playing poker.

In the case of a) the OP is a huge degen who is probably going to end up killing himself after a long battle with a massive gambling addiction. Your advice is not going to help him then.

In the case of b) that's ******ed because he can clearly afford to play 100nl as a losing player indefinitely but his gambling addiction will probably end in the same place as a). Again your advice will not help him.

In the case of c) he needs to get staked to play 400nl at a minimum and begin rebuilding his life. Your advice is probably the LEAST helpful for this guy.

Assuming the OP is +EV at at least midstakes poker he's not going to start out playing 2nl with the likes of you. The reason why you shouldn't even be in this thread is that you didn't instantly know that.

EDIT CLIFFS: And in my post I stated pretty clearly that I hated gambling. I DO gamble for a living (stockmarket=gambling obv). I told the OP that he needed to figure out what his relationship with risk was going to be. This is a concept that's easy to grasp for basically anyone who gambles for a living.
05-25-2012 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetMeLive
You told a guy who lost 500k to start with a 100$ bankroll. If you can't understand why this would never work, then you probably don't even play poker.
From 100 you can win 500, from 500 you can win 1000 and so on.... I don't see why will this "never" work to increase the profits even further? You don't think a good poker player could do that? I'm not saying that it can be done in a day, obviously.

Last edited by Faen; 05-25-2012 at 11:14 PM.
05-25-2012 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredSocial
I think it's kind of sketchy for ME (because I don't play poker anymore... and I never played HS anything) to be posting in HSNL. You should return to whatever forum hole you came from.

For a guy to have a 500k bankroll he must either have a) inherited a large sum b) earned 500k doing something or c) earned 500k playing poker.

In the case of a) the OP is a huge degen who is probably going to end up killing himself after a long battle with a massive gambling addiction. Your advice is not going to help him then.

In the case of b) that's ******ed because he can clearly afford to play 100nl as a losing player indefinitely but his gambling addiction will probably end in the same place as a). Again your advice will not help him.

In the case of c) he needs to get staked to play 400nl at a minimum and begin rebuilding his life. Your advice is probably the LEAST helpful for this guy.

Assuming the OP is +EV at at least midstakes poker he's not going to start out playing 2nl with the likes of you. The reason why you shouldn't even be in this thread is that you didn't instantly know that.

EDIT CLIFFS: And in my post I stated pretty clearly that I hated gambling. I DO gamble for a living (stockmarket=gambling obv). I told the OP that he needed to figure out what his relationship with risk was going to be. This is a concept that's easy to grasp for basically anyone who gambles for a living.
I can hardly make any sense from your arguments.. OP is trying to figure out whether he wants to get back to high stakes to win his money back. Well my advice is simply to not do that if it causes any risk. An approximately risk free way is to win money at low stakes before moving up. If he is unable to generate money from lower stakes he is less likely to generate any money from higher stakes anyway. Obviously it will take a long time though.

I think this is kinda good advice. It basically means that he will stay away from high stakes if he can't play EV+ and doesn't involve risking more than 100$. If variance is sooo dangerous then play at sufficiently low stakes lol..

Last edited by Faen; 05-25-2012 at 11:16 PM.
05-26-2012 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredSocial
I took a really huge loss this year. Not in poker, but investing/trading. I lost something like 12% of my net worth betting against netflix on their Q1 earnings. I had a terrific year in 2011 and basically gave back 35% of my total profits.
Seriously, losing 12% of your net worth is that bad? I thought I was overly risk adverse but I guess I am a degen comparitevly

I mean, if an average well to do guy has most of his net worth tied up in say 1 house and some investment properties, and say some safe stock market investments, wouldn't he still be experiencing 12% swings?

The market can go down 12% pretty easily in a few months, and the value of properties can do the same in a year, and they are both positively correlated
05-26-2012 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clue
Seriously, losing 12% of your net worth is that bad? I thought I was overly risk adverse but I guess I am a degen comparitevly

I mean, if an average well to do guy has most of his net worth tied up in say 1 house and some investment properties, and say some safe stock market investments, wouldn't he still be experiencing 12% swings?

The market can go down 12% pretty easily in a few months, and the value of properties can do the same in a year, and they are both positively correlated
Really depends on how much 12% is. Also with the markets I've seen much bigger swings--but nearly always because of market movements that opened other opportunities. This was 12% I stood basically no chance of getting back.
05-28-2012 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clue
Seriously, losing 12% of your net worth is that bad? I thought I was overly risk adverse but I guess I am a degen comparitevly

I mean, if an average well to do guy has most of his net worth tied up in say 1 house and some investment properties, and say some safe stock market investments, wouldn't he still be experiencing 12% swings?

The market can go down 12% pretty easily in a few months, and the value of properties can do the same in a year, and they are both positively correlated
it sure tilts me to lose 5-10% of nw

fml
06-13-2012 , 09:54 PM
Hey guys, it's funny this thread went his way all around the world, i dont even post on french forums but he got there. Of course nobody knew who saxophone was ahah.

Anyway, i'm finishing my grad school (finals went well) and trying to find a postgrad in Security Studies. Atm I'm thinking about Birmingham, UK but also looking at the US as $ is much cheaper and weather much better.

Poker wise, nothing but got 3 month of holidays now and i'm gonna try to make some money.

If some of you are interested in staking me, here it is http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/13...-400nl-858537/

feel free to shoot for a pm about anything non poker related too

EDIT: About the thread reaction's all around the world, it was basically : "what a fish why would anyone keep 500k online !!!"

Last edited by Saxophone; 06-13-2012 at 10:15 PM.
06-19-2012 , 01:38 PM
One thing this should teach is self control and $ management. For all u know, OP, this may have been a necessary lesson for u. Use this to grow as a person and an adult. Start low, work your way back up and move onward and upward.
06-24-2012 , 04:23 PM
If people go close to bust due to horrible variance, then I get it. But when people go bust due to tilting, I don't get it. I would say I was an above average player, but not an extremely good player; yet I made a lot of money. A big chunk of this money came off of players who tilt or players playing above their heads. They paid for my wedding, they paid for years of travelling all over the place, and they are paying for my grad school education.

I think knowing this should give you enough aversion to tilting off your bankroll. Don't pay for people's weddings and people's grad school educations.

In regards to losing half a million dollars, very few people can relate to that; but many people can relate to losing an amount of money that caused them distress. I don't think there's an easy way to deal with it; but I do think that the healthier your lifestyle, the easier it is to recover.
06-26-2012 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickabutton
i am pretty much in the same situation as op, and i found this post to be really great.
im in the same situation too, while the advice is good its also a lot easier to say than to do. what ive personally found helps is to drink a lot to escape from reality. and also play barely any poker to dig myself into a bigger psychological and monetary hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewRyan
You have to create a plan to get it back. And that plan does not necessarily have to include poker.
this is the best strategy. especially the not including poker part.
06-26-2012 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredSocial
I think it's kind of sketchy for ME (because I don't play poker anymore... and I never played HS anything) to be posting in HSNL. You should return to whatever forum hole you came from.

For a guy to have a 500k bankroll he must either have a) inherited a large sum b) earned 500k doing something or c) earned 500k playing poker.

In the case of a) the OP is a huge degen who is probably going to end up killing himself after a long battle with a massive gambling addiction. Your advice is not going to help him then.

In the case of b) that's ******ed because he can clearly afford to play 100nl as a losing player indefinitely but his gambling addiction will probably end in the same place as a). Again your advice will not help him.

In the case of c) he needs to get staked to play 400nl at a minimum and begin rebuilding his life. Your advice is probably the LEAST helpful for this guy.

Assuming the OP is +EV at at least midstakes poker he's not going to start out playing 2nl with the likes of you. The reason why you shouldn't even be in this thread is that you didn't instantly know that.

EDIT CLIFFS: And in my post I stated pretty clearly that I hated gambling. I DO gamble for a living (stockmarket=gambling obv). I told the OP that he needed to figure out what his relationship with risk was going to be. This is a concept that's easy to grasp for basically anyone who gambles for a living.
BUMP
12-24-2013 , 11:55 PM
i just lost 10,000 times less than OP and im devastated DUE TO THE MANNER IN WHICH I lost it. ****.

1. deposit 10$, grind it to 32$ in ~2 days - ✓
2. deposit 15eur on PS, grind it to 20 eur - ✓
3. lose a pot to some douchelick who went all in on the flop with 1 out - ✓
4. proceed to call him a fish - ✓
5. fish challenges me to a 50NL HU and i promptly accept and quickly deposit 50$ to play him - ✓
6. lose it all in about 3 hands - ✓
7. open up google and type in "recovering from poker losses"

=D
12-27-2013 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMartingale
7. open up google and type in "recovering from poker losses"

=D
LOL
12-28-2013 , 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpokar
I've lost 200k playing the market and probably 80k on UB

I got over the 80k by quitting poker and playing the market
I got over the 200k by quitting the market and playing poker

Hope that helps!
hahalol!
12-29-2013 , 12:47 AM
BANK ROLL MANAGEMENT

      
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