Sorry, as for the hand I agree I think you can find a fold here, but I'm a hard-pressed to offer any alternate lines that make sense on Flop.

check calling the turn is pretty bad compared to just shoving yourself.

man i would fold this so fast

yea, i just dont see how you should ever be in this spot.

I tried to put together a good argument for checking flop but I couldn't really pull it off. I think it might work if you have a tight straightforward image though. I think you kinda just have to mash bet until the money is in there and hope you run into the big chunk of his range that you're ahead of.

I tried to formulate an argument as well and failed miserably.

nice lead with the 4's full of queens last night sensei.

i think turn is instacall. There are a lot of hands u beat on turn and the only hand you are afraid is KQ. I think with KQ he would bet smaller than his slight overbet shove. also as pointed out just shove the turn urself.

My line was just check/re-eval at the time. In hindsight it def seems like shove > c/c i guess im asking where c/f fits into it all. It was a weird spot that i hadn't been in before so it was hard to make a good quick decision, and i felt that i should look really strong so shoving would over-rep my hand a bit (although pot is huge and a lot of merit of just protecting equity against pr+straight) and he can def flat his entire range on the flop which includes a tonne of hands that beat me, so i checked hoping it would get checked through. Then he shoves which sucks, but you could make an argument for calling here once i have checked. Even though shove is better than c/c. c/c might be better than c/f. So i may have messed the hand up, but i could still make the 2nd best decision (although c/f maybe better than shove). If that makes any sense.

yeh i agree flop is a bet, i was just throwing it out there