bill the butcher and it I just call here I'm always getting it in......

oops misread the hand. i thought SB 3bet (with $5k behind).

um yea given the situation here i would get it in. i also like 4betting the first time it gets around. i was wondering why i didnt agree with anybody heh.

I'm not a highstakes player but why is call and c/r ai on flop not a viable option? When the flop comes a/k high you can give up the hand, and if not I think he's very unlikely to check it behind. I don't like shoving because of stacksize, and I was thinking of 5bet/fold too but I guess his big raise makes 5b/f not that great either.
imo either 5b/f or call c/r ai (?)

i don't know much about timing tells, but given he is a donator and he almost instantaneously reraised, is seems that he didn't have much of a decision.

fidobuster.

why? what are you hoping he has? just a bluff really, right?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.366% 45.79% 01.58% 164644764 5675268.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 52.634% 51.06% 01.58% 183588540 5675268.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

and thats throwing in JJ...

seems like a "flip or ur fuct" situation not factoring in meta-game crap......

i don't play full ring much, but if i'm MP2 I often put in that raise VERY light. against the donator i would just raise/shove.

I'd 4bet the first time around so you don't have to deal with the spot you have now

What size 5 bet, like 3500?

FWIW, if I'm in position w/ AA/KK and my opponent does that, I'm loving it and flat calling pre and getting it in on any flop. He'll felt with more hands there than he'll call a pre shove.

Seeing as the villain is described as a "donator" that is playing fast and loose, he will probably stack off with AA/KK on a Q-high flop. This makes me lean towards calling. A 5-bet seems decent too.

I thought he was talking about the SN "the donator" and not some fish?

Where in my post did i say he NEVER had it? I'm saying that with the information provided, my rational deduction is to put the opponent on AK. The raise to 1950 yells "I dont have a premium hand!" You've got your opinion and i've got mine. Quit talking ****, it really doesn't make you cool, unless of course you're in 7th grade, (which your vocabulary suggests).

This thread is making my head spin. I'm with Dlizzle here. FWIW I play pretty damn tight and I re-raise in MP2's spot with crap all the time. Bill's hand looks like it's some sort of weak holding (ie. mid pair) that he's folding 100% of the time and I'd love to get that extra dead money and be HU vs the short stacks range. Also, I don't think the insta-raise or the raise size mean anything at all really. Maybe it makes it slightly less likely he has some really weak hand like deuces or whatever, but I could definitely see someone show up in this spot with something like A9s+/77-88+/etc. at least some of the time. Especially if he views Bill as a someone who plays straightforward.

Well, i say shove , however u played it wrong and should have reraised before him. If he has AK i would want him to fold if i have QQ really, too much risk for an almost flip .But whatever push and hope he don't have you preflop.I doubt he will call you with AK -JJ if you push.You prolly only get called with a hand better then yours.

So you get stacked when you're behind and win nothing when your ahead...I don't get it.

stop posting.

Im really interested why two of the best players (trambo and bldsweat) have varying opinions...then again they are probably reluctant to expain

Pretty close decision sitting with two stacks. All I can say is if we have less than 6.5k it looks like a clear shove.

I'm going to think about it in the perspective of the loose guy.

I would start off by thinking about tendencies. I'm pretty sure he knows he looks loose. the pot is 900.

I raise probably hoping for a caller and get reraised and a call in front.

Thats scary but I also would be guessing that the call is AK and probably the 300 all in has an A also or medium to high pocket pair.

so now the hands going to be shown down no matter what so it seems like a bluff is pretty much impossible here.

I wouldnt raise with anything less than a pair at this point, most people wouldnt. from the fear of the 300 all in I wouldnt really raise to isolate with a medium pair.

that really just leaves AA KK QQ JJ 1010. (I say jj and 10 10 because if he puts him on AK he might want winnable money in the pot)

I understand he's a maniac but sometimes when people are all in people kinda stop being a maniac or stupid.

so from my eyes it would seem that ok im loose I can probably get paid off with my good hand here, Id probably have shoved with KK because I dont want to see an ace so the 2000 raise puts my belief that he has AA.

I think a fold here will be the best bet often enough that 300 doesnt matter.

defffff fold are you guys crazy, have you played in this game? stars full ring with 200bb i dont even think twice here, but i would 4-bet the first time around

Nope, have never played in this game. Not to mention I figured when he said the 'donator' i figured that to mean a bad player, maybe theres a certain player named the donator which i should know something about? So cts, if you're in mp2's spot you wouldnt 4 bet 1010, JJ, or even AQ? Is your 4 betting range in that spot limited to QQ+?

I haven't played much stars 25/50 but from what I've seen this is a clear fold vs most. You're really going to have to have a very strong read to do anything else.. and as has been said I'd surely just 4bet the first time around and make it easier on ourselves.