disagree with this, and i'd bet the turn every time

plz explain why, i man if he dont respect our bets at all..

clearly it's for building the pot in anticipation of our river wheel

see his location for why.

what other rivercards do we fire then, it feels like were burning money if were not think we can get him of hands if we misses river..

Shoving or making a big overbet is the optimal play here imo. With both FDs missing, it's unlikely that he'll bluff an A hi board, and he will likely call an overbet somewhat light as he may perceive it as a nuts or air type situation. I don't think he's ever folding his two pair or set hands, and never betting his air hands.

Yes I'd say with the nuts it's usually a pretty good spot to either overbet or value bet most of the time...you know... as opposed to checking back the river.

Bet 2.0-2.3 you're not getting called by the overbet nearly enough to make it more profitable then just betting roughly the pot. Like other posters said, a bit smaller also gives the villian a chance to hang himself with a crai..It's probably unlikely but people tilt/spazz/spew all the time in sitations where they miss huge draws so why not give villian a chance to do so vs just shoving and not havin any chance of getting value from missed draws..

you bet pretty big on flop and turn so the river bet is forced to be big. Maybe a shove is the most profitable bet here becaue if hes calling 6000$ to 20%, 2000$ to 50%, etc... but a bet of 2500+ might be better depending on his thought processes i would definitely shove here because what are u trying to represent with a shove? Wouldnt it be more likely to bet a human amount with two pair a set etc?

100%

It's because he's turned a whole bunch of outs and the fact that villain cc'd this board means he can almost never have anything incredibly strong. If you want to argue that 8 weak outs isn't enough to bet such a bad turn on this texture then I maybe might agree sometimes.

The fact that op says villain gives him no respect is actually probably beneficial on this texture. On other boards it would probably suck but on Axx this likely means that a ton of really weak pocket pairs will peel here and will occasionally fold turn because OP can rep a lot of top pairs and there are quite a few rivers that will make life really terrible on this river for an underpair. That looming 3rd barrel is scary as **** in this spot if you have a weak flop peeling range.

the size of your river bet here should be a reflection of your normal tendencies based on history, how you have been balancing your ranges and finally, your primary motivation in the future.

i think your river bet here in this particular hand is very important........espeacially if you get looked up.

theres a number of different bet sizes you can give depending on what you want him to do in the future.

theres a number of different bets you can make depending on the past as well.

if the situations between you two have been fairly standard, then 2100ish (or your bluff amount) sounds about right here as long as you have been balancing correctly. (i asume villan is standard/competant?)

but without a better knowledge of history between you two and what your motivation is for the future, i dont see how you can get a great answer. the optimal answer in a vaccuum for this particular hand is too results oriented in my opinion.

do you have a history of overbets with him in the first place? this is a great spot to start. like i said, what you plan on doing in this particular hand............because this is a great board texture.........should be based on what you plan on doing in the future.

then i assume shoving rivers has not been a part of the history between you two.

it also sounds like over betting rivers has been at a low or zero frequency as well.

it would be nice to start a new dynamic with this opponent in this spot, but you can get your regualr value off this hand and find a different spot to start a new dynamic too.

the way you played this texture, i think it still has a lot of value other than just the 2100 or so you would make. that sort of number shouldnt feel regretable at all to be honest.

i like 4k

5975 sounds good

how helpful.

yeah because this thread on how much to bet the nuts on the river in position is awesome