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25/50 300bb deep i have middle set wtf? 25/50 300bb deep i have middle set wtf?

12-28-2007 , 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeadbellyDan
flop action goes: button raises, we call, villain calls.

Blank turn.

Now what?
good question, i think i misplay this spot tbh. id probably check turn and go for a river c/r if it checks through.
12-28-2007 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
This is one of those annoying spots where no matter what you do after you check your line is gonna look super strong.
Not necessarily, if we just call we can possibly have 56 on the flop considering how much money would be out there and how deep the stacks are. We could also have 34 for bottom two pair that just calls because he knows reraising is turning his hand into a bluff. So by just calling we might end up being able to get more money from the button in situations where villain folds and button has TP/333 and thinks he's either value towning against two pair or protecting against the draw when it misses on turn.... whereas if we raise the flop he's going to be able to get away from these hands and even bottom set (which he said he did fold here).

I think this applies to villain as well and would make it more likely for him to stay in or reraise with bottom set or AA as well or if he has 56 for OESD well now he's going to call. The EV we would be losing from not forcing him out when he has a draw isn't more than the value we gain from when either villain or button stay in with hands we beat though IMO. Also by just calling we can rep TP Qs that could think villain was cbetting and thinks BTN might have been trying to steal, and doesn't want to turn hand into a bluff. When we reraise the flop though we're just repping a set assuming we dont have a crazy image.
12-29-2007 , 09:25 PM
MAKA_VELI is that tight?!? mh i think he can call here with a OESD and otherwise he mostof the time has 33 or QQ. i also could not remove AA from his range, because he calls 4bets preflop with 99 and he also calls any other stupid stuff against me OOP and IP.

so for me that is really really close. i would check and decide that to do based on his betting szise and timing. if he checks behind i definatly bet the river 4 value.
12-29-2007 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Python49
Not necessarily, if we just call we can possibly have 56 on the flop considering how much money would be out there and how deep the stacks are. We could also have 34 for bottom two pair that just calls because he knows reraising is turning his hand into a bluff. So by just calling we might end up being able to get more money from the button in situations where villain folds and button has TP/333 and thinks he's either value towning against two pair or protecting against the draw when it misses on turn.... whereas if we raise the flop he's going to be able to get away from these hands and even bottom set (which he said he did fold here).

I think this applies to villain as well and would make it more likely for him to stay in or reraise with bottom set or AA as well or if he has 56 for OESD well now he's going to call. The EV we would be losing from not forcing him out when he has a draw isn't more than the value we gain from when either villain or button stay in with hands we beat though IMO. Also by just calling we can rep TP Qs that could think villain was cbetting and thinks BTN might have been trying to steal, and doesn't want to turn hand into a bluff. When we reraise the flop though we're just repping a set assuming we dont have a crazy image.

Pretty sure hero is folding 56 to a raise and a reraise here, (or should be) because even if we are getting the right price (don't know if we are I suck at math) we are oop and we don't even close the action. It can get reraised behind by the main villian and even if he just calls or folds, now we have to first hit our 8 outer and then figure out how to extract value oop against 1 or both players.

I guess cold calling with 43 would be ok, but again your life is just going to be hell on many turns and rivers, and you'd basically have no choice but to go into c/c (or c/f) mode and pray you're good.

Hero never has Qx here that would be folded everytime.
12-30-2007 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckychewy
flop 3-bet seems really bad if his perceived call range is so strong that ppl are advocating c/f turn.
I'd just like to say that's quality thinking right there.

      
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