New Video: Daniel 'jungleman12' Cates: "Balance is Overestimated" - Poker Coaching Video - Two Plus Two Videos

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New Video: Daniel 'jungleman12' Cates: "Balance is Overestimated" - Poker Coaching Video

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04-04-2012 , 12:29 PM

PokerStrategy

grinder

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 489

Daniel 'jungleman12' Cates: "Balance is Overestimated" - Poker Coaching Video

Video: Daniel 'jungleman12' Cates: "Balance is Overestimated" - Poker Coaching Video
Category: PokerStrategy.com
Uploader: PokerStrategy

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStrategy

Coaching video from and with Daniel 'jungleman12' Cates.

Topics:
1. Why balance is overestimated
2. How to assign a correct range in difficult situations

See more videos at:
http://www.pokerstrategy.com/videos

05-21-2012 , 11:48 PM

Dylan Poppy

newbie

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 35

Very interesting video from Jungleman. Great stuff!

05-26-2012 , 01:14 PM

lnternet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 12,224

first slide is so much fail

balance in the traditional sense? what does that even mean? bluffing/valuebtting in every situation? what? there are spots where we should never bet and that is totally balanced.

the more frequent a situation, the more balance is important: just wrong. just because a spot wasn't there before doesn't mean that a GTO response doesn't exploit a nonGTO play. just nonsense.

This goes on and on like this...

He should maybe try to define what that weird **** "balance" even means. this is so incredibly fuzzy and wrong it's not funny.

05-27-2012 , 02:06 AM

ETBrooD

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 296

Yeah, it's certainly a good idea to criticize a crucial part of Cates winning strategy that has made him a multimillionaire.

05-27-2012 , 11:13 AM

WTFIJustDid

banned

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 329

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnternet

I love most of your posts and while it certainly works for you, I think quite often you get too caught up into the GTO plays. GTO would be the best option if everyone played perfectly balanced, it isn't the case at any stake.

also, just because the GTO play exploit a nonGTO play, very rarely will the GTO play will be the best, even if it will never be wrong.

05-27-2012 , 11:47 PM

lnternet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 12,224

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETBrooD

Yeah, it's certainly a good idea to criticize a crucial part of Cates winning strategy that has made him a multimillionaire.

I said nothing about his strategy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFIJustDid

completely agree with you, it's common knowledge really

his definition(s) and some of the points made are still wrong / not applicable / random

05-28-2012 , 10:07 AM

ETBrooD

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 296

"balance in the traditional sense? what does that even mean? bluffing/valuebtting in every situation? what? there are spots where we should never bet and that is totally balanced."

This directly/ criticizes his strategy.

"the more frequent a situation, the more balance is important: just wrong. just because a spot wasn't there before doesn't mean that a GTO response doesn't exploit a nonGTO play. just nonsense."

This criticizes it even more directly.

05-28-2012 , 04:45 PM

lnternet

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 12,224

Do you know what a strategy is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

A player's strategy, refers to one of the options he can choose in a setting where the outcome depends not only on his own actions but on the action of others.A player's strategy will determine the action the player will take at any stage of the game.

The strategy concept is sometimes (wrongly) confused with that of a move. A move is an action taken by a player at some point during the play of a game (e.g., in chess, moving white's Bishop a2 to b3). A strategy on the other hand is a complete algorithm for playing the game, telling a player what to do for every possible situation throughout the game.

In the first part you quote he defines what "balance" means and I criticize his definition.
In the second part he makes a statement about applicability of "balance" which I criticize.

Neither of these has anything to do with making actual decisions which could be part of strategy.

05-28-2012 , 07:01 PM

ETBrooD

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 296

Yeah, I used to be nitpicky like that, too. But I found that people don't like to be bull****ted, so I stopped.

05-29-2012 , 08:38 PM

#10

imperfetto

stranger

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2

Balance = overkill

05-30-2012 , 11:59 AM

#11

tripseekerx

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 151

FYI, no magic in this video...

06-01-2012 , 08:28 PM

#12

Siti_11

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 217

I got the feeling that jungelman did not enjoy making this video very much. Seemed like he was just trying to get though it. No depth, very fuzzy, poorly planned. Really dissapointing from such a great player.

06-05-2012 , 01:42 AM

#13

Ezzalor

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 623

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnternet

balance in the traditional sense? what does that even mean? bluffing/valuebtting in every situation? what? there are spots where we should never bet and that is totally balanced.

the more frequent a situation, the more balance is important: just wrong. just because a spot wasn't there before doesn't mean that a GTO response doesn't exploit a nonGTO play. just nonsense.

He should maybe try to define what that weird **** "balance" even means. this is so incredibly fuzzy and wrong it's not funny.

Yeah agree that his definitions are super sloppy in this video. But in other videos he has done a better job of explaining them (although often lacking a clear and concise definition) and does say a lot of stuff that people haven't really thought about before.

Another thing, when you're saying that a GTO strat would exploit a non GTO strat, you make it sound like GTO is an actual exploitative strategy in itself. Is that what you think? or am I assuming to much?

06-06-2012 , 07:45 AM

#14

TMack

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 613

very nice vid

06-06-2012 , 11:18 AM

#15

Chaosinus

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 198

Stop clicking the mouse!

07-06-2012 , 05:25 PM

#16

Finalsback

banned

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 81

Liked the video... hope the Dang Brothers come back they pros.

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