how do you play this hand?


No Limit Holdem Tournament
PokerStars
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$58.74+$1.26

Stacks:
SB jacktheshipper (475)
BB nicolasb (525)

Blinds: 15/30

Pre-Flop: (45, 2 players) jacktheshipper is SB 5 4
jacktheshipper raises to 60, nicolasb calls 30

Flop: 8 10 8 (120, 2 players)
nicolasb checks, jacktheshipper bets 50, nicolasb calls 50

Turn: J (220, 2 players)
nicolasb checks,

River: Q
nicolasb bets 90,

im just shutting down i turn i think. probably one of the worst turns to continue on since suddenly his flatting range will have a ton of equity with this board.

Yeah I generally think of this as just a fold, not thinking much about it. There are lots of spots where you can shove rivers because villain has lots of marginal thin betting hands but I would think this is one of the worse ones.

Pretty suicidal to barrel off here IMO

lets say i check the turn behind

then on the river

we have the decision between raise all in, raise a nominal size, or fold

which ones do u guys prefer and why?

how much is his flop flat mattering?

Im so confused what hand we can profitably flat on that flop other than like TT lolz

i think it matters alot because it caps his range

Fold. As explained before.

He's not capped because he can always have 9s which isn't folding.

Bigger cb otf 3/4pot is best imo

i doubt it, who flats 9x with like 13+- bbs behind

think about the 9x combos that flat pre, 97 9T 9Q 9J 9K all pretty good gii imo

Ok, ill play nice, why do you think so?

Yeah def disagree with this.

turn bet would be very bad imo, and river is an easy fold as well

specially if we are raising 45o in our range and we barrel often, we def def should not barrel this turn, or we will end up blowing up too many pots with barrels, this is something i have noticed but its really massive impact, just from 60% raise to 80% raise its a world of a change in barreling scenarios (with 60% they will become value heavy a lot more frequently than 80% etc, so need to take an eye on that or ull end spewing too much)

lol fishes i know that turn barrel is sick bad

i checked behind, again main question here is river

and borg why do u think its an easy fold?

what do you guys think about this play ?

and how do you think it compares to folding river in expectation?


No Limit Holdem Tournament
PokerStars
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$58.74+$1.26

Stacks:
SB jacktheshipper (475)
BB nicolasb (525)

Blinds: 15/30

Pre-Flop: (45, 2 players) jacktheshipper is SB 5 4
jacktheshipper raises to 60, nicolasb calls 30

Flop: 8 10 8 (120, 2 players)
nicolasb checks, jacktheshipper bets 50, nicolasb calls 50

Turn: J (220, 2 players)
nicolasb checks, jacktheshipper checks

River: Q (220, 2 players)
nicolasb bets 90, jacktheshipper raises to 180

i think raising riv (particularly minraising) has significantly worse expectation than folding. he has way too many hands in his range that will call a minraise and even some hands that will call a jam.

can u name them?

>PREFLOP:

He is pretty tight oop, and altough i almost prefer limps because he doesnt attack my limps much, 54o just has such bad equity and i need that extra money earned from getting folds so i decide to minraise.

>> FLOP:

because i dont have showdown equity and havent been supercrazy cbetting, i decide to just go ahead and bet here.
I choose 50 here because we are pretty short, and 50 here is my default with my entire range.



>>>Turn

std check

>>>>River

Qd

maybe 65% of his range is gonna make a thin valuebet and fold to any kind of raise because of the way the board ran out. (mainly Jx Qx)

I choose to minraise because i believe this way i rep the most strenght.

I rep K9 here SUPERGOOD, AK without spades, all 9x, and maybe i play my flushes like this 1/3d of the time

In Summary: My range is SUPERWIDE , can almost never contain a bluff, i rep alot of hands credibly, while his range is supercapped, and weak. which makes this in my opinion a great bluf overall.

you only mention what you can exclude, what hands do you actually think he gets to the river with and leads them supersmall? does QJ without a spade qualify? imo a 9x type hand makes most sense, i just don't see him having alot of thin value bets with worse, value is already thin and it gets even worse because he can induce spazzes that he can't look up

meh, i get the reasoning but there's something about it that i don't like, can't put my finger on it. we only need a fold what like 35%? maybe it is best i'uno.

agree with ohly about the exclusions, what do you think villain is taking this line with?

i dont know what is in his range really,

like i dont think there is any hand he can profitably float the flop with vs me

so therefor any float by him kinda stunns me esp when he folds the river

its like coffee said the only hand he can most likely profitably flat here is 8x Tx

so idk what hand he has that he takes this hand with exept for complete random bs that makes no strategical sense at all

and hands that turned a pair on turn/river miraculously

"imo a 9x type hand makes most sense"

how? he is pretty nitty preflop so the only nines in his preflop flattin range should be

97 9J 9T Q9 J9 and maybe K9

so how is he not raising those on the flop? at around 13-15bbs with money in pot



also not sure how much it matters that we cant put him on a range that he gets to the river with, as long as we know for sure that our (perceived) range is way stronger then his range i guess

Fwiw i didnt double barrel much in that particular game (bad runouts of boards etc)
so perhaps he thought he could profitably float and bluff rivers, but then still its such a bad board to do it on

96, 97, j9, q9, k9, some qx, some jx,...

let's also not forget that he's basically never bluffing here but his small-vbet range is actually relatively strong.
ur perceived range is polarized between only 9x and complete bluffs which might make it easier for him to call with a wider range.

Fastcolt, you're basically saying that you don't think he has many 9's because of his flop play. But if you look at his play overall, you can weight his range against pretty pretty much everything. So you have to consider how much his range is weighted against these things and then evaluate from there.

I think he shows up with way too many 9's/monsters/weird hands that call, to want to raise here.

idk where u get this from, im really confused right now

why is my perceived range polarized between those?

How do you get the read that hes never bluffing here?

and do u disagree that 97 J9 gii on flop (and 96 surely folds pre at this stacksize given how nit he is oop pre) ?

i dont understand the bolded part, as in language barrier not understanding i think

could u provide some examples or more explanation of what u mean?

im just saying that when he flats the flop he is capping his range pretty hard because im sure this guy shoves most 9x and flushdrws on this flop, esp given the dynamic, think he was check raising 30%+ vs me so i dont see why you guys say that he flats 97 or 9J on flop and then miraculously gets to the river, its a superturbo, surely 13bbs deep with dead money in pot those hands have way better expectation shipping flop then flatting, and thats something imo, that villain at least realises. So i dont understand why borg says he has 97 in his range on the river etc, when weve already established that he would ship that on the flop.